Police: 4-year-old girl accidentally killed by sibling

[gyrfalcon]

I'll blame the family or whoever was supposed to be supervising the 8 year old... If this was an older shooter I would blame the person pulling the trigger.

I even make sure certain dogs are locked up before I shoot because I don't want them sneaking downrange or causing problems while I'm firing.

I hope the parent/s are criminally charged.

[jdege]

Each one of those adults (espically in the case of these kids being so young) needs to be within arms reach of each one of these kids ESPECIALLY when the line is hot. This does two things. It provides a "buddy system" of sorts, so none of the children are hiding behind bushes and the like, and it will allow the adults to keep the children from doing anything stupid with or around a loaded firearm.

My take on firearm safety is process-oriented. I don't find advice like "be more careful" to be of much use. "Be more careful" won't prevent you from putting a round through the family room wall, because you got interrupted by a phone call, and only remember that you'd cleared the gun and checked the chamber.

What will is process - you pick up the gun, drop the magazine, pull back the slide, and check the chamber, as a single, uninterrupted process. If you get interrupted, you've aborted the process. When you've dealt with the interruption, you start at the beginning, regardless of what you might remember having done before.

There's simply no way to take a herd of kids out for an afternoon of family fun, and to keep everyone maintaining the necessary level of alertness for the entire time. The shooting should be restricted to a period, with specified stopping and ending times, during which you maintain the heightened alertness necessary for safety.

If people want to shoot more, start the process over from the beginning.

The guns stay cased, the ammo stays boxed, until you've got everything set up, the toddlers corralled, the shooting line cleared, and everybody is alert and aware that shooting is going on. That means you have someone sitting on the rambunctious four-year-old who likes to run all over everywhere.

And since folks can't maintain the necessary heightened sense of alertness, permanently, before the alertness is lost you should cease fire, unload and case the weapons, and let everyone relax.

[macphisto]

I hope the parent/s are criminally charged.

You're right, a dead child is not enough punishment.

[Holland&Holland]

Sad sad stituation. I can not even imagine ...

That said, there is much wisdom in what Strad said.

I started my boys out on BB guns at about 6. We always treated it no different than any firearm and any deviations from the safety rules were swiftly and sharply corrected. I worked with them one on one until I was confident that they had a sense of muzzle control and always in a controled environment. Later they would tag along in the feild for what ever we might be hunting with that BB gun. As they aged it was fairly easy to trade up to more powerful arms. Still with one on one instruction and in a controled environment. We are at the point where I can take them both to the range or in the field with no concerns (well only the concerns a parent always has I suppose). The point is I trust them more than I trust others be they at the range or in the field at this point. That does not mean that every session does not start with a review of the safety rules be it field or range. Even still I still control the environment that they are in and they do not load or fire without my say so. I guess what I am saying is it takes time and you have to be in control of the situation and as many potential variable as you can until you are confient and trust them with your life and the lives of those around you. Just my random thoughts on the subject.

[gyrfalcon]

I hope the parent/s are criminally charged.

You're right, a dead child is not enough punishment.

I'll presume you're being facetious. Being related to someone doesn't negate the law, negligence or irresponsibly. I suppose you were one of the folks that initially supported Anthony Klaseus until learning what a scumbag he was? Would your views on the incident differ if you found out the parents had been drinking and were not supervising the kids at all?

[xd ED]

If you were out shooting with the family, what would you do?

*MY OPINION...... YOUR'S MAY VARY*

Every child should go through some sort of safety training before handling a firearm or even being allowed to go to the range. The Eddie Eagle program is great, as are a number of other programs for kids.

There should be AT LEAST one adult for every child at the range in a non-classroom setting like this and with kids this young. Any less and it gets into a cat herding situation which could prove dangerous.

Each one of those adults (espically in the case of these kids being so young) needs to be within arms reach of each one of these kids ESPECIALLY when the line is hot. This does two things. It provides a "buddy system" of sorts, so none of the children are hiding behind bushes and the like, and it will allow the adults to keep the children from doing anything stupid with or around a loaded firearm.

*OPINION OVER*

I know that every time I post a response to a tragedy like this, someone gets butt-hurt about what a jerk I am for my perceived lack of compassion. The fact is, this (and most other shootings like it) could have been EASILY avoided.

I do feel terrible for the family, and espically the 8 year old behind the trigger. I feel worse because this accident could have been avoided. I'm sure that is something the parents will never let themselves forget.

Add to those safety provisions a larger than normal 'no-mans-land' between spectators and firing line where no one goes. But absolutely a one on one adult to child ratio, with at least one RO overseeing.

[DeanC]

[Grandpa Rex]

A pure tragedy all the way around. Had the adults been within arm's length of either child and aware then this could have been avoided.

An 8 year old still needs close supervision. I am just now letting the 11 year old grandson out of arms reach at the range with loaded weapons. He has proven his maturity but he still bears close watching. I can stop him with a word and I rarely have to, but there is still the possibility of a "junior moment" so I keep a good eye out.

[Ironbear]

Our practice with the nieces and nephews, is that the really young ones don't get to go. The older ones get to consider it a privilege that can be easily revoked. Then, we still try to have at least one adult per child, and typically have one adult not shooting/supervising that can keep an overall eye on things.

[Snowgun]

One more - eight seems a bit young, to me, for someone to be shooting without close supervision. That is, someone within arms reach, who can keep an eye on the safety situation, and tell her when it is safe, and when it is not. And, if necessary, to stop her from shooting when it isn't.

I agree with this totally. I believe there is a little too much gung ho about getting kids out shooting when they are young. The problem isn't that we shouldn't introduce shooting young, it's that every child should be judged if they are ready independent of age and more upon capability. And by capability I mean safety and competency with the firearm and the situations that can arise. Second, and this has been addressed a little, if you bring a young child on the range to shoot, they should be the only thing being focused upon. Either they are shooting or receiving instruction. Left to their own devices they will whip up a FAIL faster than you can imagine.

I started shooting so young I can't remember the age. BUT, I do remember that my father took my brother and I SEPARATELY out on the range. It was full instruction, learning, safety, and practice the whole time. Plus, we were either shooting or about to shoot. No thumb twittling while dad fires off a bunch of rounds.

If you can't completely control the teaching experience, then don't do it.