Another CCW question

[EastSideRich]

Am I reading this right:

MN statute 624.714

Subd. 17. Posting; trespass. (a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person
or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the
operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be
brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to
leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not
exceed $25. .....
(b) As used in this subdivision, the terms in this paragraph have the meanings given.
(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the following circumstances:
(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign at every entrance to the
establishment containing the following language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR)
BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES."; or
(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally informs the person that guns are
prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.
............

So hypothetically, if one were in place, such as a mall, where it says "guns are banned" while carrying, no crime has been committed unless they are asked to leave and do not comply?
And if there is an incident like that which took place in Omaha, and someone who was carrying (but had not been explicitly asked to leave) shot the gunman, they would also not be guilty of any crime?

Also, thanks ttousi for pointing out this statute in my other post.

[EAJuggalo]

Actually the mall is the landlord and cannot tell it's tenants that they can't allow firearms so it is irrelevant. At least to my and many others here's thinking. A private business even if the sign is posted, must ask you to leave, if you refuse they call the local LEO and must again ask you to leave, if you refuse again it's a $25 trespass ticket.

ETA: the mall owner in Omaha also owns Eden Prairie Center and Ridgedale, are both of those still posted?

[Srigs]

EA is right. In MN, a posted building still requires them to ask you to leave just like if you won't carry a pistol.

So if asked just leave and no harm and no foul.

[ttousi]

Actually the mall is the landlord and cannot tell it's tenants that they can't allow firearms so it is irrelevant. At least to my and many others here's thinking. A private business even if the sign is posted, must ask you to leave, if you refuse they call the local LEO and must again ask you to leave, if you refuse again it's a $25 trespass ticket.

ETA: the mall owner in Omaha also owns Eden Prairie Center and Ridgedale, are both of those still posted?

Correct

To expand the landlord cannot restrict carry in areas leased/rented to the tenant. they cannot restrict the tenant/guests/customers......only the tenant may post the rented property. The landlord may not restrict passage through common areas that lead to the rented space. This also applies to apartments and motel/hotel.

[EastSideRich]

so just to make sure, just being on the premises with a firearm is not in and of itself a crime?

And, god forbid, if one were to shoot someone who was on a rampage,even though guns were banned in the building, they would not have broken the law?

[Aftrshck]

so just to make sure, just being on the premises with a firearm is not in and of itself a crime?

And, god forbid, if one were to shoot someone who was on a rampage,even though guns were banned in the building, they would not have broken the law?

At least as I understand it....
That would depend on how well you can elaborate that your life was in danger and you had no way to retreat...I am sure writing 101 will help that moment

~Aftrshck

[ttousi]

so just to make sure, just being on the premises with a firearm is not in and of itself a crime?

And, god forbid, if one were to shoot someone who was on a rampage,even though guns were banned in the building, they would not have broken the law?

Correct...........not a crime until you refuse to leave when asked by a LEO..........can be tagged and issued a 25.00 fine ...........3rd time you get tagged you lose permit.

2nd question...............common sense says you are a hero..........however, .....
IANAL.........I would suspect you would most likely not be criminally prosecuted however, you may still be open to civil action.

[cobb]

...........3rd time you get tagged you lose permit.

New one to me.
I think if you get tagged a 3rd time for 0.04 to 0.10 you loose your permit.

Can you point us at a link or statute for that, would like it for an addition to my teaching materials.

[IDPA Shooter]

Am I reading this right:

MN statute 624.714

Subd. 17. Posting; trespass. (a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person
or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the
operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be
brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to
leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not
exceed $25. .....
(b) As used in this subdivision, the terms in this paragraph have the meanings given.
(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the following circumstances:
(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign at every entrance to the
establishment containing the following language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR)
BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES."; or
(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally informs the person that guns are
prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.
............

So hypothetically, if one were in place, such as a mall, where it says "guns are banned" while carrying, no crime has been committed unless they are asked to leave and do not comply?
And if there is an incident like that which took place in Omaha, and someone who was carrying (but had not been explicitly asked to leave) shot the gunman, they would also not be guilty of any crime?

Also, thanks ttousi for pointing out this statute in my other post.

I tell my students that I have not seen where anyone has been this stupid and actually received the $25 fine in Minnesota. Does anyone here have direct knowledge of a case where someone received this ticket and probably a warning not to tresspass again with a handgun.

[EAJuggalo]

As of October no one had received a $25 trespass according to the research by Professor Olson and John Caile.

[ttousi]

...........3rd time you get tagged you lose permit.

New one to me.
I think if you get tagged a 3rd time for 0.04 to 0.10 you loose your permit.

Can you point us at a link or statute for that, would like it for an addition to my teaching materials.

Anything is possible.............I may be off ..........but I will double check

[cobb]

...........3rd time you get tagged you lose permit.

New one to me.
I think if you get tagged a 3rd time for 0.04 to 0.10 you loose your permit.

Can you point us at a link or statute for that, would like it for an addition to my teaching materials.

Anything is possible.............I may be off ..........but I will double check

I guess I would be even more interested if someone would be so goofy as to get ticketed 3 times for not leaving the premises when requested.

[ttousi]

Update...........haven't found it yet..........looked up the alcohol part ...no specifics on penalty. I shall continue the quest.

I agree anyone getting ticketed a 3rd time is not smart enough to deserve a permit.

To the best of my knowledge no one has been ticketed yet.

[hammAR]

As of October no one had received a $25 trespass according to the research by Professor Olson and John Caile.

Maybe Joe and John can next do a study on why people persist in referring to it as CCW?
I know that it is anal, but have we become so indoctrinated by the drive-by media that even we have begun to accept that terminology and no longer challenge it..............

If you repeat a lie enough, it becomes fact......

[EastSideRich]

That would depend on how well you can elaborate that your life was in danger and you had no way to retreat...I am sure writing 101 will help that moment

Wow, I didn't realize my writing and sentence structure would be under such scrutiny. I was aware of the fact I inappropriately used a coordinating conjunction in place of an independent marker word, as well as a couple of other errors. It was quite early in the morning and I was running late for work. I was hoping no one would notice. Thank you for your careful examination and commentary on my posting.

Also, What would be the proper terminology or shorthand for what is generally referred to as CCW?

Man, You guys are rough!