Another CCW question

[cobb]

I was aware of the fact I inappropriately used a coordinating conjunction in place of an independent marker word

Wow, I bet I do that too. But I'm not sure because I am not really sure what you are talking about, except a grammer issue.

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

Ah the word police again

"Permit to carry" would be a good all encompassing start. The reason for the flack, is because, the word CONCEAL cannot be found in The Minnesota Citizens Personnal Protection Act, 2005. Also know as Mn statute 624.714.

Cuss at the next plonker who questions your writing abilities, please.

As for the questions, keep them coming.....there are no stupid ones, just some of the answers, including those that just question the words you used and how you wrote them.

PS...........shakespeare and the lawyers are on the other board.

[ttousi]

Settle down boys.................or I may have to take all of ya out back of the woodshed.

daryl............most of the guys don't realize that you don't have your permit yet and have not been indoctrinated on the "CCW" part..........well now you have We prefer the term Permit to Carry around these parts.

Don't worry about hammAR..........he's harmless unless you give him the "stink eye" (check with macphisto for further info on that)

Anyway cobb and I have exchanged some info and I have contacted and received an answer from the BCA.........result......nada. I will continue to look at the 3 strikes you're out as it relates to the posting and BAC.

Could be an old wives tale on both but we shall see.

PS: Daryl come to the effen breakfast and meet some of the clowns (see clown thread)

Later

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

...........3rd time you get tagged you lose permit.

New one to me.
I think if you get tagged a 3rd time for 0.04 to 0.10 you loose your permit.

Can you point us at a link or statute for that, would like it for an addition to my teaching materials.

Anything is possible.............I may be off ..........but I will double check

Ya dirty friggin' sailor, just cos pirates new nufink of clenliness...........don't meen you cant bathe. I don't care if you have a thing for Captain Jack Sparrow.........your not a pirate.




Screw you ......word police.

[hammAR]

Ah the word police again

"Permit to carry" would be a good all encompassing start. The reason for the flack, is because, the word CONCEAL cannot be found in The Minnesota Citizens Personnal Protection Act, 2005. Also know as Mn statute 624.714.

Word police..... Yes, it seems simple, but words seem to affect and have effect on the mentality of the general populace, let alone the legislators. Something simple like "undocumented" rather than "illegal" suddenly makes it palatable, less offensive, and suddenly it becomes a non-issue. As well as, something simple like adding "assault" or "automatic" to rifle, suddenly makes it ominous and far easier to make rules to control it, as a simple rifle is turned into a thing of instant fear and dread.

Am I taking a shot at dbl bbl daryl, certainly not, but there were 6 other posters, including 3 instructors that nary said a word. I do object to people, especially in this little community, becoming comfortable with and accepting this subtle kind of changes. "Concealed Carry" means something different than what we are fortunate to have in MN "Permit to Carry", and to me this is/was a prime opportunity, and a learning experience, to educate.......

If this makes me part of the word police, then so be it...............

[ttousi]

Am I taking a shot at dbl bbl daryl, certainly not, but there were 6 other posters, including 3 instructors that nary said a word. I do object to people, especially in this little community, becoming comfortable with and accepting this subtle kind of changes.

agree....................I hate when you are right Just makes you .........never mind

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

Ah the word police again

"Permit to carry" would be a good all encompassing start. The reason for the flack, is because, the word CONCEAL cannot be found in The Minnesota Citizens Personnal Protection Act, 2005. Also know as Mn statute 624.714.

Word police..... Yes, it seems simple, but words seem to affect and have effect on the mentality of the general populace, let alone the legislators. Something simple like "undocumented" rather than "illegal" suddenly makes it palatable, less offensive, and suddenly it becomes a non-issue. As well as, something simple like adding "assault" or "automatic" to rifle, suddenly makes it ominous and far easier to make rules to control it, as a simple rifle is turned into a thing of instant fear and dread.

Am I taking a shot at dbl bbl daryl, certainly not, but there were 6 other posters, including 3 instructors that nary said a word. I do object to people, especially in this little community, becoming comfortable with and accepting this subtle kind of changes. "Concealed Carry" means something different than what we are fortunate to have in MN "Permit to Carry", and to me this is/was a prime opportunity, and a learning experience, to educate.......

If this makes me part of the word police, then so be it...............

I answered Darrels question AND gave an "up your bum" to the word police.

Would that count as a double barrelled post?

[hammAR]

I wasn't trying to be right..................

[ttousi]

I wasn't trying to be right..................

that's even worse.............

[EastSideRich]

Thanks again guys.
Didn't mean to rub anybody the wrong way with the CCW vs permit to carry thing. I've always used, and heard the two used interchangeably. I didn't realize the are negative connotations with using CCW. Chalk it up to a newbie mistake. I guess words like concealed and assault don't really bother me. I do however realize that one needs to be careful in using some words due to the unfortunate knee-jerk reaction of a lot of people.
Anyway, I appreciate the help and advice I receive here. You guys are always quick to answer questions, and I am always impressed by the wealth of knowledge I see here; Some of you guys are funny as hell too!

Also, just wanted to say regarding the original post in this thread: I'm not looking for "loopholes" or ways around the law. In reading the statute ttousi so kindly pointed out to me, the whole trespass section really jumped out at me. I am just surprised at how this part of the law is written. It is shocking to me that it basically says you don't really need to obey a place's gun ban sign (which I think are ridiculous, but thats a whole nother topic - and I know "nother" is not a real word). Anyway, just wanted to mention that.

Warmest regards,
dbd

[ttousi]

It is shocking to me that it basically says you don't really need to obey a place's gun ban sign

That may be your interpretation but your local LEO may have a slightly different one. Just because there is little consequence doesn't mean it shouldn't be obeyed. Once you take a class I think many things will become clearer for you.

Keep the questions coming and make the effen breakfast if you can. Jan 5th
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1788

[westhope]

dbd: Welcome to the forum.

The "anti's" always used the "Concealed Carry" wording for the evil connotations of the word concealed. As did the news media. That is why we always tried to use the term "Permit to Carry" trying to get the bill passed. What I try to do, is to explain to someone that uses the term "Concealed Carry Permit" that it is a "Permit to Carry" and does not need to be concealed. I try to do this only once and politely. When instructors advertize their classes as "Concealed Carry Permit" classes I am not so polite to them. If they are an instructor they have no excuse to use that term.

Just don't start a discussion of "clips" versus "magazines".

[EastSideRich]

Again-
Not trying to skirt the law, just mean I'm surprised they didn't make the offense the carrying of a firearm in a place where its banned, instead of just making it an offense to not leave when asked. It just seems to kind of make the whole sign irrelevant in the first place.

P.S.
ttousi:
I sent my email to you earlier in a pm. Will you shoot me some info when you get a chance on your classes.
Thanks again.

[chunkstyle]

Couple of points:

A) The actual name of the law is "Personal Protection Act". Not "Concealed Carry" or even "Permit to Carry". I have verbally sparred with antis over this, when they say they want to be rid of the conceal-carry law, I say "no problem, Minnesota HAS no conceal-carry law." My permit says on top, "Permit to carry a Pistol", but in fact the law allows me to use it to carry long arms as well. (Subject to any applicable hunting regulations.)

B) The process for banning guns in a locale has 3 parts.

1) You must be informed that guns are banned. This can be in the form of a compliant sign, or can be done verbally.
2) Demand for compliance must be enforced on you. The management or owner of a place must insist you remove yourself while armed. This must be done verbally.
3) For there to be any consequences to you, you must then refuse compliance. That is, you must remain on the property in the face of the request.

Signs aren't there to ban guns. Any ban is simply done at the whim of the property's owner/manager. What the sign does is inform the observer of these wishes, and is one of the 2 lawful ways it might be done.

Of course none of this usually matters, if the local staff have no inkling of your armed status. They could, I suppose, approach each guest and say, "Excuse me, if you have a gun, we have banned them, and you must leave if you have one.", but this seems unlikely.

[nyffman]

Maybe Joe and John can next do a study on why people persist in referring to it as CCW?
I know that it is anal, but have we become so indoctrinated by the drive-by media that even we have begun to accept that terminology and no longer challenge it..............

If you repeat a lie enough, it becomes fact......

Off topic. But, more proof that words mean things. I really don't care if I get called "grammar police" or whatever. Bad grammar, poor choice of words obscures the message.

Thank you hammAR for speaking up.