Why is calling it CCW bad?

[macphisto]

I used to think it was foolish to ever open carry, but have since learned that there are times and places when it's perfectly appropriate. I've done it on occasion.

I'm reminded of something Greyskys said on Tcc: "I swear I could drive a tank to the market and no one would notice if it was painted candy apple red and had the words "Honda Accord" on it."

It's oh so true.

Oh, and MAc: I doubt many people at the Steel Shoot were concerned with your Open Carry

Open carry of an empty, useless gun. Not much to be concerned about there.

Are you saying it is illegal to carry a long gun? I said law, not permit. It has been pointed out that the card means nothing.

The only reason I pointed this out is the fact that people will “freak” over the word concealed but call others morons for carrying long guns when it is technically legal.

Guy, are you trying to be antagonistic this evening? It sure seems like it.

Just because something is "technically legal" does not make it a smart or practical thing to do. Go march down Nicollet Avenue tomorrow with an AR slung over your shoulder and then report back on your experience after you post bail and/or get out of the hospital.

[ttousi]

Just because something is "technically legal" does not make it a smart or practical thing to do. Go march down Nicollet Avenue tomorrow with an AR slung over your shoulder and then report back on your experience after you post bail and/or get out of the hospital.

Good point...........You're learning mac

I would add that the side of the road is not the place to educate LEO's

[plblark]

In MN, the law is very specific. It NEVER mentions a concealed requirement. It's a Permit to Carry a Pistol.

Note: one sentence refers to Law. The other names the type of permit. The Permit type is not Concealed Carry Weapon. The Law doesn't require concealed. Thus, MN does not have a CCW permit in law or in name.

Where does it say pistol in the law? If you answer do it right please.

I never said it says pistol in the law. I said it doesn't require Concealed in the law. The Per

You're right, I commingled the type of permit and the concealed language issues which are two separate arguments against CCW as a descriptor.

See.. I tried to clarify even. And I wasn't the only one to pull out and quote the card text when reading and responding to your comment.

Are you saying it is illegal to carry a long gun? I said law, not permit. It has been pointed out that the card means nothing.

I said that the MCPPA does not directly cover legal long gun carry. That's done by another ordinance referencing the MCPPA. Please note that transport of a long gun is VERY different from transport of a handgun.

I think you'll have a much tougher time educating the responding officers and / or the court that OC of a long arm is legal and acceptable than educating the same audience of the legality of OC handguns. It's a perception and public panic thing. Legal but unlikely to go un noticed.

Goodnight

[plblark]

Hmm, I don't recall anybody at Dick's getting upset when I open carried there after the steel shoot

you mean no one in a metro area store paniced when two guys walked through the store and purchased ammo while open carrying. I mean, that scary guy had on a trench coat for goodness sakes ...

<this would be much better If I could remember if you loeft the coat in the car or not>

[justaguy]

I pointed out what the law says. The law says nothing about open or concealed. Or about long or handgun and the card means nothing if I was wrong correct me. Is it smart to open carry? Is it smart to carry a long gun? I'm just sayin.

[meltedeyes]

Hmm, I don't recall anybody at Dick's getting upset when I open carried there after the steel shoot

you mean no one in a metro area store paniced when two guys walked through the store and purchased ammo while open carrying. I mean, that scary guy had on a trench coat for goodness sakes ...

<this would be much better If I could remember if you left the coat in the car or not>

You would have thought people would have been running for the exits and calling 911 "two guys with guns are buying more bullets!" Wait, maybe they were calling, but they crashed the cell tower by all dialing at once...

Yeah, I left it in the car. Russian horse-hair olive green army great coat, not only was it too bloody nice that day to be wearing it, but there ain't much that wouldn't be concealed by it anyway.

[hammAR]

Since I kind of started this in another thread but now we have a dozen voices trying to define what "is" is, I will try to get it back on track and attempt to answer dbl bbl daryl's question:

What is the problem with calling it a CCW permit?.

Daryl, there is no problem with it, if that is what you want to do. Just like there is no problem with calling a magazine a clip, an illegal alien and undocumented worker, an american citizen whose family has been here for 200 years a (hyphinated)-American, a woman a Ho, or US Navy personnel squids, or a Muslem a towel-head.....................you can call it anything your little heart desires..............................(not being scarcastic )

The FACT is Mn statute 624.714, The Minnesota Citizens Personnal Protection Act, 2005 does not call for or require 'Concealed".

The FACT is the MN state approved permit as issued clearly states "Permit to Carry a Pistol".

Now, one could argue or use terms other than, and some will, the definition of "pistol". Can you call it a revolver, a hand-gun, an automatic, a 1911, or even a weapon, yes, but the FACT remains that it clearly states "Pistol", just as it clearly states "Permit to Carry". No other definitions, restrictions or limitations.

So yes, we can discuss the definition of what "is" is all night, or if you choose you can call it a CCW or CCH or what ever you want, but is it correct, NO..............

Again, to reiterate, am I taking a shot at you, certainly not, but I do object to people, especially in this little community, becoming comfortable with and accepting this subtle nuance. "Concealed Carry" means something entirely different than what we are fortunate to have in MN which is a "Permit to Carry a Pistol".......

[cobb]

Back to the original question.

What's wrong with calling it a conceal carry, because it is wrong, there is no conceal in the law. If you want to go around calling a male animal an "it" because it has had its testicles removed, that's fine, but it is still wrong, it is a male.

[jac714]

Let me get back to the original question, I think one of the issues here is that we need to look at the audience. I know I am not as precise about the definitions and nuances of the MCPPA with "regular" people as I am people in the community of ours.

If you are participating here, evidence indicates that you are more active in the shooting sports and, for the lack of a better phrase, more out there about guns and gun rights. That means that for the better good you need to know the precise meanings of Minnesota law.

Look at it this way, if you are on a discussion board with Corvette enthusiasts you need to know the difference between each generation of Vettes so if you are talking to a schlub like me you can provide me with the correct information.

The answer to your question is that it is not bad, just wrong in Minnesota to call it CCW for the reasons others have so eloquently pointed out.

[Pat Cannon]

...I just don't completely understand why that particular word is offensive; it doesn't bother me in the least, as that is precisely how I will be carrying if and when I get my permit. I realize the law doesn't specifically say concealed. I just don't get how that word somehow makes it bad or dirty.

It's just a matter of trying to make it common knowledge that that's what the law really says. One good reason for this is that if it's common knowlege, a cop will know it -- even if they sleep through that day in their training. Then presumably, just for example, if you're on your motorcycle downtown and your gun happens to become visible, a cop is less likely to be under the impression that this constitutes probable cause for a 'felony stop' style arrest.

Personally, my attitude and conversational approach to this is the same as plblark's: no big deal, but let's get it straight. I think some people get more wound up about it because it's the millionth time they've endured this minor irritation. And you never know if the guy you're talking to just calmly corrected somebody the 999,999th time!

[someone1980]

Precision aside it is shorter to type CCW and people know what it means. Some people get caught up on minor technical points and miss the big picture that posts are trying to make.

edited the below to how I do it. Yes there are two versions

OK. Precision aside, I still don't get why the word concealed bothers anybody. What it is about the word "concealed" that is negative?

A friend asks you about your "concealed carry permit".
You respond "I looked into it in 2005 when they passed the law the second time"
Then they tend to bring up an issue and I respond to it like I am trying to remember what it was I learned.


A friend asks you about your "concealed carry permit".
You respond "I have a permit to carry. It never said anything about concealed"
Your friend: "But you carry it concealed, right?"
You: "Most of the time."
Your friend: "Does anybody else open carry?"
You: "I see them all the time. Usally at sporting good stores. Usally *not* at banks"
Your friend: "So what difference does it make if it's a permit to carry a concealed weapon, or a permit to carry a weapon?"
You: It is nice to not go to jail when my coat blows open though.

[hammAR]

Nice job someone1980................kudos....

Pat: Please get the numbers correct, it can't be 999,999,
because I only have 1553 posts, well 1554 now...

[1911fan]

remember your highschool coach telling you to practice like its a game, to do everything just like its game time?

Now here a lot of what goes on is practice. Practice dealing with people adverse to our points of view, practice dealing with unpleasant situations, So that when we are in a discussion with someone about the Permit to Carry we call it just that, with the clarification of WHY we call it that, so that people understand and become comfortable with the idea of everyday people carrying a gun in public.

I try to carry concealed, but If i am at a restaurant and its 90* inside, and I decide to remove my sport coat, I do not want people calling the cops because my handgun is visible. I correct people often when they call it a CCW or Concealed permit. Because its public education, and its subtle but very strong.

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

Permit to carry......try P2C

[JoeH]

Permit too Carry