Does anyone here shoot F-Class TR?

[Amithus]

A buddy and I are looking into shooting F-Class TR this year and wondered if anyone locally shoots. I joined the ERSC and figured I would find people there as they have some F Class events however was wanting to know what it was like in general and what to expect.

Picking up a Savage action / trigger group and we have a stock in mind. Setup seems to be in the $1700 range after glass but no spotting scope.

Any suggestions on spotting scopes? I'm not looking to leverage my bank account but would like something that will do 300 to 600 yards and be able to spot for a .308.

Also any general info and / or suggestions would be nice. Like sign up dates you know of, different leagues and typical turn out.

Thanks in advance.

[JJ]

I've shot a couple times out at ERSC, but my job schedule does not allow me to shoot weekday evenings. If I ever manage to get off of second shift I'll be out there.

[RAGGED]

I shot there just about every Monday last season, Scott runs a great little thing there and it's good clean fun. I personally don't feel a spotting scope is a MUST for 600 yard F-Class, in fact the spotting scope is only ever used by your score keeper, you should be able to see the scoring and marking disks just fine with whatever optics you are using provided they are in 15X+ range, and even then I know I can see them with my 10X stuff. Also just about everyone there has a spotting scope, you will likely be scoring for someone who has theirs setup and normally they don't mind you using it because you are after all scoring for them. At any rate when I do bring one out I normally use a $70 Barska, it works just fine, you are not looking for bullet holes, just scoring disks and shot markers, both of which are about 4" in diameter. Starting out I would spend as much as you can on rifle optics and rifle and worry about the spotting scope later, I've used my buddies $3500 HD coated Zeiss, for F-Class scoring at ERSC it makes no difference from my POS Barska.

I happen to run a few Savages for long range play, just picked up another virgin target action yesterday from Jim Briggs at Northland Shooters Supply out of Buffalo (shameless plug for a good guy) to use for this year’s F-Class rig. What are you planning to run for a barrel and stock, is the action you got one of the Precision Target unit with the lightweight accutrigger?
One thing I will stress is weight, if you are shooting a 308 get that moma as heavy as you can, I think FTR is up around 18lbs and open is 22lbs or so, you will be doing yourself a favor by making your rig as close to that as you can. Also if you are indeed shooting F-TR you will really want to get an F-Class specific bipod (looks nothing like a std bipod) it makes the experience much more enjoyable, not that a Harris won't work (I used one half the time last year) but the Sinclair unit is nice and there is a fella at EREC that makes a copy of it for a bit less, lots of guys run his unit up there. My go to rig is down with a shot out barrel so I've been shooting a Savage 308 10FCPHS in some local 300 meter matches and despite the rig weighing a solid 12.5lbs it jumps around ALLOT, a 175gr pill leaving at 2700 FPS has a bit more recoil than you would think, trying to hit a 3" X ring @ 600 yards is a bit more difficult then putting one in Bambi’s heart @ 300.


At any rate it's a great time, I just got into it last year and it's now my most active area of shooting, let us know what you're building!


Also if you are looking to get some nice off season shooting in check out the MRC Monthly matches, heated building, electronic scoring targets, pretty nice deal if you wan't to keep pulling the trigger even if there is snow, the group is almost all F-Class with a few HP shooters here and there http://www.mrra.org/int.htm

[Amithus]

Thanks for the great info.

[RAGGED]

Thanks for the great info.

One other thing I forgot to mention is come prepared and what I mean is know your rifle, know your ammo and know your ballistics. I say this because they have a zero tolerance for stray shots, if you can't hit the target on the initial shot you will be done for the night and be asked to step off the line, I've seen it happen and wouldn't want to be in the position. You will want to have solid chrono data for your load, going by book values is hit or miss, different length barrel, tighter/looser bore, temp differences from when they tested ect, you really should find a buddy with a chrono and run 20 rounds over it to get some good solid data. ERSC is nice in that they start out the year with much shorter ranges, the idea is to get everyone set up and running and other shooters will help you figure out what you need to do to confidently come up to the longer ranges. I would highly recommend doing everything you can to make the early dates , you will likely not be able to show up a stranger and say I want to shoot 600 later in the year, it's just not worth the risk to the club.

The single biggest issue I see new people struggling with is scope adjustments, specifically their math is often flawed when it comes to how many inches one click is at 600 yards ect. Many people who are use to shooting at 100 yards often start resorting back to 100 yard math, 4 clicks (1/4 MOA scope) = inch, they see that they are 6 inches low and want to come up 20+ clicks, it takes some people time to remember that one click is 1.5" and to move those 6" will only take 4 clicks. I would suggest getting very familiar with your optics and also with the targets you plan on shooting (MR1FC), study the scoring rings and it will become 2nd nature to know what your adjustments should be based on your impact, most plotting sheets have little "cheats" on the side but it's good to be familiar with it so you can cross reference the cheat sheet instead of relying on it completely.

[JJ]

+1 on figuring out your ballistics before showing up, and practice adjusting your scope up. I came for one of the 300 yd days with my gun setup for 100yd POI. I did exactly like Ragged mentioned and thought I needed to come up 12 or so clicks. I knew my fps and drops but was not familiar with the scope adjustment. Luckily my first shot hit the target, but was dam close to going over. It took me about 8 shots to come down to the X ring. If I would have done this at 600, there is no telling where i would have ended up.

[RAGGED]

+1 on figuring out your ballistics before showing up, and practice adjusting your scope up. I came for one of the 300 yd days with my gun setup for 100yd POI. I did exactly like Ragged mentioned and thought I needed to come up 12 or so clicks. I knew my fps and drops but was not familiar with the scope adjustment. Luckily my first shot hit the target, but was dam close to going over. It took me about 8 shots to come down to the X ring. If I would have done this at 600, there is no telling where i would have ended up.

Yeah the worst are of course are the ones that THINK they know it all. I was at the Match which is a little different than the normal Monday night deal as people from all over come out to get some shots towards their NRA classification, so you can't really weed out the beginners as much because if they show up and say they have a confirmed 600 yard zero you pretty much have to give them the benifit of the doubt. The guy next to me was the last guy there, showed up late, big hurry, brings his rifle to the line, cranks the turrets WAY to F out. I asked the guy in a polite manor what he was doing, said something about knowing where it was blah blah blah, well it looked like he came up about 40 MOA from wherever it was and I suspected something was up. Scott will travel the line with the spotter for your zero verification, normally if you are off he can see the vapor trail and tell you where to go, this fool was so far off he couldn’t even catch a glimpse, the shot must have been WAY off. That was his one and only shot that night, F-ing idiot, guys like that make my blood boil. For the record this fine chap seemed to be well known amongst the local guys. I gathered he was a 3 gun shooter pretending to be Mr. long range sniper with his fancy tacticool 308, even had the genuine sniper issue charts affixed to the stock.... lot of good that did him!

[JJ]

Yeah when it happened to me I right off the bat informed Scott I did not have a 300yd zero. My math was saying around 18 clicks, Scott said he was guessing around 10. I kinda split it and got lucky. If I would have been know it all guy, I would have been dam near over the berm.

When you go be sure to tell them its your first time and they will help ya through. Don't sweat the spotting scope right off the bat. I had talked to Scott ahead of time and said I needed to go buy one. He hooked me up with his spare for the two weeks I could actually make it. He just told me to talk to the guys there, one of them probably had a spare I could buy on the cheap.

[RAGGED]

P.S. In case it wasn't clear the moral of my above story is..... Don’t trust 3Gun guys with bolt guns



I would like to try the Konus unit talked about here http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13175&p=141727&hilit=spotting+scope#p141727 I've heard good things about them but like I said, with the optics on my rifle I have no need for a uber high end spotter, I would just worry about it running off while in the pits or my scorer knocking it over, the Barska is where it's at, dialed down to 30-40X (its worthless @ 60X) its damn clear and more than useful for score keeping, I've seen them go on sale at Cabelas for $50.

[Ken]

Amithus, I'm looking at getting into F class at ERSC as well. I have a chrono so maybe we can meet up out there sometime this spring. Once I finish the AR project I've got I'll start looking at bolt guns.

[rugersol]

Don’t trust 3Gun guys with bolt guns

Hmmm ... and here I've been spending my scope/stock money on gettin' my 3-gun rifle squared away.

[Keith]

Don’t trust 3Gun guys with bolt guns

Hmmm ... and here I've been spending my scope/stock money on gettin' my 3-gun rifle squared away.

And here I was thinking about trying F-class out to learn some stuff and maybe get hooked on another shooting sport. Doesn't sound too welcoming, so far.

[rugersol]

Don’t trust 3Gun guys with bolt guns

Hmmm ... and here I've been spending my scope/stock money on gettin' my 3-gun rifle squared away.

And here I was thinking about trying F-class out to learn some stuff and maybe get hooked on another shooting sport. Doesn't sound too welcoming, so far.

That's if we don't accidentally shoot each other with our AR's, first.

Eh ... not a big deal ... I've seen similar, even worse attitudes from "veteran" USPSA/IDPA shooters.

[Rem700]

Hmmm ... and here I've been spending my scope/stock money on gettin' my 3-gun rifle squared away. [/quote]


Eh ... not a big deal ... I've seen similar, even worse attitudes from "veteran" USPSA/IDPA shooters. [/quote]

One of the main reasons I gave up on USPSA 10-15 yrs ago. I tried IDPA once a couple of yrs ago and everyone seemed ok and I tried 3gun once last yr and everyone one was kewl wish I had more time to try a few more times.

[rugersol]

One of the main reasons I gave up on USPSA 10-15 yrs ago. I tried IDPA once a couple of yrs ago and everyone seemed ok and I tried 3gun once last yr and everyone one was kewl wish I had more time to try a few more times.

That's my problem ... I don't think I shot 4 monthly SASS matches last summer ... shot a few more USPSA ... prior year, I don't know if I shot one weekend USPSA.

I think there's a few folks ya'd rather not shoot with, in all of 'em ... ya can let 'em get to ya, or not. But there's plenty of good people, too.

Nice thing 'bout SASS is, they got a RULE against bein' an ***hole.