Legal carry without a permit in MN

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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby plblark on Wed May 25, 2011 2:18 pm

Poupard was charged with carrying without a permit. The court threw that out because Poupard claimed he was traveling between his business and home. The Appeals court overruled the Trial court citing
Under the rationale put forth by respondent, anyone with a proprietary interest in a business would be able to carry a loaded pistol in his car while traveling between home and work regardless of how indirect and far reaching the route.


More:
http://mn.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19910605_0004.MN.htm/qx
COURT OF APPEALS OF MINNESOTA: 06/05/91 STATE MINNESOTA v. DONALD JOSEPH POUPARD
[...]
FACTS
[...]Respondent alleged in his affidavit submitted to the trial court in support of his motion to dismiss that he was the owner of the Hungry Pilgrim Restaurant located at Interstate 494 and Highway 55. Respondent further stated that the gun found in his car was formerly in the restaurant safe and was being transported to his home located near the intersection of Interstate 494 and Highway 62. He explained that the transfer was necessary because the restaurant had been sold and new owners were taking possession on May 12, 1990. Respondent further alleged that on his way home, he stopped at the Hopkins House Restaurant (located at 1501 Highway 7, Hopkins). He explained that he intended to deliver kitchen equipment, but admitted to the arresting officer that he had had a few drinks while at the Hopkins House.
[...]
Based on these submissions, the trial court dismissed the weapons count concluding:

This Court finds that the State has not proffered any evidence to support the allegation that defendant was not carrying his pistol between his dwelling and place of business as is permissible pursuant to Minn. Stat. ? [6]24.714, subd. 9(c).
[...]
ISSUES
[...]
2. Did the trial court err by dismissing the weapons charge after concluding the state had not met its burden of showing that respondent was not on his way home?
[...]
ANALYSIS
[...]
We believe that subdivision 9(c) was intended to carve out a narrow exception to the general requirement of obtaining a permit to carry a handgun. The expansive interpretation of the exception urged by respondent would substantially broaden the spectrum of conduct that would not require a permit. Under the rationale put forth by respondent, anyone with a proprietary interest in a business would be able to carry a loaded pistol in his car while traveling between home and work regardless of how indirect and far reaching the route. Cf. Application of Atkinson, 291 N.W.2d 396, 400 (Minn. 1980) (rejecting interpretation that anyone driving an "appreciable distance" on public highway obtained right to carry weapon without permit, as gutting the statute). We hold, therefore, that the exception must be construed narrowly to avoid negating the general rule that a permit is required to carry a handgun and protect the public interest.
[...]
DECISION
The trial court erred by dismissing the charges where the state presented sufficient evidence to raise a question for jury resolution.

Reversed and remanded.
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby 1911fan on Wed May 25, 2011 2:31 pm

There is case law somewhere too that says even employees are considered to have a proprietary interest in the business. It had to do with a long defunct gun shop and employees carrying guns while at work. That case was dismissed and it was not over turned. In the case some hoodlum tried to rob the store during business hours but was stopped, and held, by employees who were carrying. A overzealous prosecutor tried the employees on carrying without a permit, but as it was a written policy of the employer, the case was tossed.


Someone with access to Thompson/Rueters law books on line would be able to handle it. The time frame was 79 to 84, or so. Should be Henn. Cty as the store was out on HWY 55. It was the case law that gave Gunshops the power to arm their employees prior to the new Permit law.


I believe the owner of Wixon jewelers had some case tried too, that his place of business took him to many places, and as such he was deemed correct in his interpretation. That was a long time ago, as well, but the concept was that Bloomington was predatory and arbitrary in their granting or issuing of permits. That case may have been settled, but I know there was an incident where he was in trouble at some time over this. I believe his claim was that Bloomington was unwilling to grant him a permit based on his politics.
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby MTWildhack on Wed May 25, 2011 4:18 pm

selurcspi wrote:
plblark wrote:The other limitations to this come from case law. It must be direct (Don't stop at the bar) It must be a fixed location(Not a courier or taxi driver) and it must be in reasonable proximity (Not a cross country airline flight IIRC)

So much simpler to get the permit. The Lawyer's first 2 hours on your case will be more than the class + Permit.

Case Law is "State of MN v Poupard", I'll try and find the document when I get home.


State v. Poupard, 471 NW 2d 686 - Minn: Court of Appeals 1991
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby Grayskies on Thu May 26, 2011 2:44 pm

IMO getting a P2C is so much cheaper an less time consumming than being a test case! Tho with the test case you get to meet lots of new people!

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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby cobb on Thu May 26, 2011 3:12 pm

Grayskies wrote:IMO getting a P2C is so much cheaper an less time consumming than being a test case!

Very true words. 8-)
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby selurcspi on Thu May 26, 2011 9:04 pm

Posted on the wrong thread.
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby SleepingJake on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:49 am

Sorry I raised this thread from the dead but I've been reading up quite a bit on this statue and I have a few questions..

First of all, I know I'm going to get harped at for being lazy and not just getting a PTC. That's fair enough, except for the fact that I'm limited by age. FWIW I'll be 20 by the time I get home from this sh**box.

Being that my primary source of income will be a truck stop while I work my way through college I'd like to carry. Because everyone knows that gas stations are as safe to work at as the arms room of a swat team

I'm assuming that this law still applies seeing that the statues are the same as previous posts. What are the legalities of carrying without a PTC under this safeguard?

Your thoughts are appreciated guys, thanks.
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby justaguy on Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:56 pm

SleepingJake wrote:Sorry I raised this thread from the dead but I've been reading up quite a bit on this statue and I have a few questions..

First of all, I know I'm going to get harped at for being lazy and not just getting a PTC. That's fair enough, except for the fact that I'm limited by age. FWIW I'll be 20 by the time I get home from this sh**box.

Being that my primary source of income will be a truck stop while I work my way through college I'd like to carry. Because everyone knows that gas stations are as safe to work at as the arms room of a swat team

I'm assuming that this law still applies seeing that the statues are the same as previous posts. What are the legalities of carrying without a PTC under this safeguard?

Your thoughts are appreciated guys, thanks.

The short: There is no answer.

Add in you being 20. Gods Speed, and remember most of these folks are not lawyers, and remember what you paid for this information.
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby Seismic Sam on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 am

selurcspi wrote:
plblark wrote:The other limitations to this come from case law. It must be direct (Don't stop at the bar) It must be a fixed location(Not a courier or taxi driver) and it must be in reasonable proximity (Not a cross country airline flight IIRC)

So much simpler to get the permit. The Lawyer's first 2 hours on your case will be more than the class + Permit.

Case Law is "State of MN v Poupard", I'll try and find the document when I get home.


Why would the state of Minnesota bring charges against a jar of French mustard?? :P
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby FJ540 on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:18 am

Because we* hired a medicated crazy to run it?


*most of the state tried to get a good guy on the job.
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby SleepingJake on Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:34 pm

justaguy wrote:
SleepingJake wrote:Sorry I raised this thread from the dead but I've been reading up quite a bit on this statue and I have a few questions..

First of all, I know I'm going to get harped at for being lazy and not just getting a PTC. That's fair enough, except for the fact that I'm limited by age. FWIW I'll be 20 by the time I get home from this sh**box.

Being that my primary source of income will be a truck stop while I work my way through college I'd like to carry. Because everyone knows that gas stations are as safe to work at as the arms room of a swat team

I'm assuming that this law still applies seeing that the statues are the same as previous posts. What are the legalities of carrying without a PTC under this safeguard?

Your thoughts are appreciated guys, thanks.

The short: There is no answer.

Add in you being 20. Gods Speed, and remember most of these folks are not lawyers, and remember what you paid for this information.


Oh I know, I was looking for thoughts-not advice ;). Wouldn't hurt to call a few lawyers and hear what they have to say about it. I know concealed is concealed but it's not something that I would risk the rest of my life not owning another firearm.
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Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby Snowgun on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:55 pm

One or so year to go, don't chance it. Carry a big fixed blade.
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby tman on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:20 pm

In your car, a cased semi auto pistol with a full magazine next to it is fine.

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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby SleepingJake on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:30 pm

Snowgun wrote:One or so year to go, don't chance it. Carry a big fixed blade.


I have an auto knife (Spyderco Citadel) that I can legally carry. And yeah, a year isn't going to kill me. Even if I can/could/can't legally carry without a permit if I was arrested for it I'd probably have to sell off all my guns for legal fees.

Once again, common sense wins another round :deadhorse:
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Re: Legal carry without a permit in MN

Postby justaguy on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:41 pm

SleepingJake wrote:
Snowgun wrote:One or so year to go, don't chance it. Carry a big fixed blade.


I have an auto knife (Spyderco Citadel) that I can legally carry. And yeah, a year isn't going to kill me. Even if I can/could/can't legally carry without a permit if I was arrested for it I'd probably have to sell off all my guns for legal fees.

Once again, common sense wins another round :deadhorse:

You might want to read up on state laws concerning auto knives.
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