Medical Supplies

[Aceq2jot]

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying do nothing. I’m just saying that your normal small kit is about all you need. If you have the need for an AED they are great but last I looked they were over $1000. If you feel you need one by all means get one they are very useful. And if you own your own business it wouldn’t be bad to have one.

I was just saying that your best bet would to not be alone in that type of situation if you can avoid it. Like I said I know a guy that was shot so things can happen but how much are you looking to spend. It also comes down to you. If you had all the best stuff would you know what to do with it? Anything beyond an AED and I’m done and if the AED directions are gone I still might be F’ed.

Honestly a A.E.D Only works when the heart stops beating and then delivers the shock. But if you have shot yourself it would not work

And dont worry about instructions as on the pads there are diagrams and the machine talks to you so even a 7 year old could use it to save a life.

[rucker]

I agree that training is the best and, as I said earlier, I'm not sold on the idea of having a whole gunshot wound kit but I don't see how it could be bad to have something simple that will stem the flow of blood. Spending $25 and having an extra 2 ounces in my pack isn't going to kill me and is, it would seem, better than nothing.

Then again, I'm not a doctor so that's why I am asking

[Medic468]

I should put together some sort of basic course, I don't have Firearms Instructor creds but being a medic for 6+ years should cut it. I'm thinking something like the .mil CLS content with an optional CPR class at the end would be great.

I could cover what supplies make sense to carry. I am sure that there are people with no medical training carrying more than I do off-duty.

What does everyone think? Any interest?

[westberg]

I would be interested.

Ron

[jac714]

Depending on my availability I am interested.

[rucker]

I would be interested.

Me too.

[Einthoven's Triangle]

Training is the key! And, that is the ugly truth! You guys can jack your keyboard all you want about VOK's and other items. There are plenty of avenues to training as previously posted, and it is best to get structured training. You guys can buy what ever you want, but it does not mean you will know how or when to use it! Toys are just stuff that gets in the way of taking care of the patient, if you do not have a clue how to use something then you become part of problem and not the solution!

The best advice is get some quality structured training!

[Einthoven's Triangle]

North Memorial EMS in Alex has an education dept. So you do not have to travel far!

I too would be intersested- just to save myself. The rest of the guys I hunt with--WELL

[Medic468]

I would venture to guess that most of these guys ( and gals) that are on here with an interest are just looking for some basic knowledge to fill the gap til EMS can arrive on scene.

I would love to put something together for all of you, and even make it more of a common occurence.

I've been giving it more thought and I am considering putting together a one-day course with basic first aid/trauma management possibly along with an optional CPR portion ( I have a few friends with instructor creds). I've even considered the option of a VOK along with the course and we could talk about the use of it's contents and what makes sense to put in you're own kit.

I am thinking that most people aside from someone with a job related requirement or need don't want to attend 40 hrs of first responder or 110 hrs of EMT. This way we could tailor specific first aid information for those interested in the shooting sports.

I'm open to suggestions... Fire away

[justaguy]

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying do nothing. I’m just saying that your normal small kit is about all you need. If you have the need for an AED they are great but last I looked they were over $1000. If you feel you need one by all means get one they are very useful. And if you own your own business it wouldn’t be bad to have one.

I was just saying that your best bet would to not be alone in that type of situation if you can avoid it. Like I said I know a guy that was shot so things can happen but how much are you looking to spend. It also comes down to you. If you had all the best stuff would you know what to do with it? Anything beyond an AED and I’m done and if the AED directions are gone I still might be F’ed.

Honestly a A.E.D Only works when the heart stops beating and then delivers the shock. But if you have shot yourself it would not work

And dont worry about instructions as on the pads there are diagrams and the machine talks to you so even a 7 year old could use it to save a life.

Thanks for the heads up. I thought AED meant “All Emergence Disasters” and it was capable of taking care of anything and everything. I Googled it and apparently it means “Automated External Defibrillator”. I was wrong about the $1000. I saw one for $575.

I don’t think taking classes is a bad idea, but I have been in a couple and never really learned anything I didn’t know. Knowing CPR is good but it really isn’t that effective. The AED, pressure, raise it above the heart, and call for help are about it. I haven’t taken any EMT courses I’m sure I could learn stuff but is it going to help with a sucking chest wound? Besides put plastic on it.

[Einthoven's Triangle]

Structured classes are the best foundation, bar none! The knowledge will last you a life time, as long as you have touch of common sense to go with it!

Having a VOK is sort of treading on dangerous territory, IMHO. You do not need Ricky or Roberta Rescue sticking needles in people's chests when they very will might not need such interventions! Having access to such equipment just invites trouble, IMHO. People get so caught up in gizmo they for get the basics. Plus you need to know how to assess for tension pnuemo, and let me tell you the obvious signs are late signs.

Here are a few examples of having little knowledge can and is a dangerous thing!
#1 Patient with broken humerous, patient was treated with inflated blood pressure cuff that was occluding distal pulse to the point where the forearm was cool, blue, and pulseless! Their excuse was it is just like an airsplint! This was done by first responders....
#2 Patient had been drinking and had an onset of chest pain, patient was treated with not one 1 Nitro, but six Nitro tablets which bottomed the blood pressure out. The person doing that failed to take in that the person was hyperventilatiing! That you do not give people NTG with out having BP to support the use of NTG. This was done by some first responders trying to help the patient self administer his own drugs.
#3 Patient being treated with Non Rebreather Mask at 2LPM, can we say oxygen narcosis? This was done by LPN who thought giving COPD patient too much oxygen was bad....
#4 Diabetic that was unresponsive and drooling (obviously unable to protect own airway) was being force fed orange juice laced with table sugar. Can we say aspiration pnuemonia? This was done by a RN with a 4 year degree.......see education does not ensure competence!

And these are not even invasive procedures.....

#5 Basic EMT starts IV, but upon arrival of ALS back up the IV is not functional as it was stuck in the ARTERY! The EMT could not figure out why blood was pulsing in the IV line and fluid was not going into the patient?

Do things right and get some formal training! If you do not want to invest in yourself that his your choice! But, just cause you have equipment does not mean you know how and when to use it! Take a First Responder Course, and that coupled with some common sense will get you through most things. And, if you are out in East BFE with no cellular coverage what good does GPS do you?

Being prepared is the first step! Just remember that God done gave you the most important tool already your brain, provided you have common sense!

[Seismic Sam]

Yeah - the original response to the AED acronym was WAAAYYY off the mark. As far as instructions, you slap the pads on and the machine does the rest. IF you have had some sort of coronary problem and know you are at risk, this would not be a bad investement, period. You'll carry it everywhere, so it's not just $575 on your hunting expenses. The ONLY caveat is that you can't use it on yourself. With SCA (Sudden Cardiac Arrest) you go in a few seconds, so there's no point to having one if you're alone. (And this might want to make you change your hunting patterns, too.)

I also have some personal experience in this area. There was a guy I let hunt on my property who was named Mike Ling, he was a fellow 3M'er, and a full blooded Sioux indian at that. Only hunted with a bow, had the native respect for the land and his quarry, and was a damn good shot. He hunted my land for years, and one fall he didn't show up. Two weeks later I get a call that he had died of SCA while setting up one of his hunting stands. (Thankfully on somebody else's property.) He certainly died the way he wanted to, but seeing as he was only 45 it was still a damn shame.

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

Learn the basics

Breathing
Bleeding
Circulation

Burns
Bones
Coma

Initative
Training
Authority

[Wadero]

Real Bad Boys Should Find Better Habits

Responsiveness
Breathing
Bleeding
Shock
Fractures
Burns
Help, call for

[Einthoven's Triangle]

Real life medic interventions? Perhaps Transtracheal Jet Insufflation? Surgical Cric? What needle thoracostomy? IV therapy? Gosh sort of think that you might want to focus on the basics! Not Geez Whiz Gizmo's! None of that will save a life if you do not ensure the ABC's! Trauma care is pretty straight forward, as most trauma is BLS treatments! Well, the first job is to ensure an airway! Then breathing, and control bleeding! This does not change with GSW's! Learning first aid will cover treating penetrating wounds, which is what gunshot wounds are! ALS interventions are best left to those that know exactly what they are doing! Sorry folks you need an educational foundation! What some of you want is like skipping medical school and stepping into a OR suite!