British Colonial .45 Ban Question

[traveler]

I have read many times over, and not at length, that Britain banned all. 45 caliber firearms in 1909 for their Colonial areas. I have tried to "Google" information about this many times in the past and I have each time come up empty-handed.

Why did the British do this? Wouldn't those that had the desire to do the British ill have other calibers with which to do so?

Even if someone could point me in the correct direction it would be appreciated.

[rugersol]

... from ... http://ezine.nitroexpress.info/NickuduFiles/ASG-PDF/PULP1069.pdf ...

Around 1907, however, political events
intervened. There was an uprising in India, and
unrest in the Sudan. There were still tens of
thousands of .450 Martini-Henry rifles floating
around. To prevenr insurgents obtaining
ammunidon, the British government banned all
.45}-calibre rifles in both regions

[traveler]

Wow. Thank you. If anyone else has more I would be delight to read them. Thanks again.

[crbutler]

I'm not sure I would say that Wieland is the best choice of an authority on this subject.

The Arms act was passed in 1879, which was aimed at stopping the Indian Maharajahs from forming armies that would be able to face British troops. The Indian revolts in the late 1850's had been very ugly affairs and the British were quite concerned about having the upper hand there.

Lord Litton who was the viceroy in India in the 1870's was not a well liked fellow and was quite repressive, and may have ordered some of this on his own hook.

When you start talking the 1900's remember that the 450's which were black powder rounds militarily were being supplanted by the new small bore smokeless rounds. The British were bloodied by the Boers in this time frame with the use of the then new Mauser rifles, despite many of their troops being armed with the comparable .303 rifles. As a note, the Mauser first came out in 1888 (actually the Infantry commission rifle) and the well known "Mauser" was adopted in 1898. The French came up with smokeless powder in the 1886 Lebel rifle, leading to a new arms race.

One should also remember that the Brits fought in Sudan around this time (where Winston Churchill first made his mark at Omdurman) and used a "evil" new invention- the soft point expanding bullet- these were called Dum-Dums after where they were made, and were quickly banned by the western powers due to the mess they made of the attacking Sudanese tribesmen (which even shocked the rather racist and jaded Victorian British press). These were manufactured at the Royal Arsenal at Dum Dum in India...

So, it would seem that the early 1900's was a bit late for the Brits to be worried about Indian manufacture of .450 class weapons and ammo, and that manufacture of more modern arms was already underway in India by the late 1900-1910 time frame. My suspicion is, that while like you I can't find any specific dates of a formal ban on the .450's, it probably dated to the 1870-1880 time frame rather than later.

[1911fan]

The ban was the later date. .303 rifles might have been reaching the front line troops in the late 1880's and but in the first boer war the Brits had very few .303's available and it wasn't until the second boer was in 1889-1901 that .303's were used in the "Emily" or MLE rifle. The SMLE which was a shorter version optimized for smokeless cordite loadings was not pressed into service until 1906. It was this 1900 to pre-WW1 which saw the Surplus .450 rifles reaching the colonies until it was decided that expecting a large European land war and arming the rabble in the African and Asian colonies with cheap effective although obsolete rifles was unwise. Sorta like Obama banning the reimportation of m1 carbines, Eh?

[rugersol]

I'm not sure I would say that Wieland is the best choice of an authority on this subject.

I saw multiple references to "India", "Sudan", and "1907" ... the one I linked was merely what appeared to be the most concise.

The ban appeared to be on ammo ... not a "class of weapon" ... as the enemy had an abundance of .450 rifles ... which, w/o ammo, would simply be clubs! Some of yer dissertation there seems to support this.

Most such references are in the context of the development of .500 Nitro Express ('er the like), as India was otherwise a large "market". Not to say that H&H, 'er Norma were otherwise also merely citing Wieland.

Also seems to me my '96 Swede is "well known" ... as is the '95 Chilean ... jest sayin'!

[traveler]

My error here. The ban, as I now believe, was for .45 caliber ammunition of any configuration, not firearms. I believe that there have been a lot of fairy tales that have grown up about this, but very little definitive information.

Banning just one caliber of ammunition seems to have many holes in the concept (no pun intended). Hunters and firearm manufacturers seem to have danced around it quickly and effectively. COTW references this event many times in their various British commercial cartridge descriptions, but lack dates, rationale, etc. I wouldn't expect COTW to expand on it, other that give it as the reason for the development of XXX, but in my Google searches there has been scant information. There is absolutely nothing I could use here other than to satisfy pure curiousity, and that is what I am tryng to do.

Thanks again for the input. I appreciate it. If anyone has links I would appreciate that even more.

[Squib Joe]

The banning of "military" calibers is still done in places like Mexico, where you can't buy 45ACP - this is one of the reasons why 38Super 1911s took off down there and remain popular today. The theory being, I think, that you could take a soldier or policeman's gun but have nothing to feed it. This was common policy in Central and South America particulary after Castro took over Cuba using, essentially, Bastita's own arsenal to overthrow the government.

[RobD]

This was common policy in Central and South America.

Still is in most of the countries.

[crbutler]

Actually, the Brits banned .45 bullets in this. It seems that no one is quite sure when it was actually passed, and there is a lot of evidence it was in effect in the early 1900's, but I cannot find a source that actually states the dates involved. It may have been earlier, and not enforced until then, I don't know, but Cartridges of the World is one that puts it in the 1900's.

The "current" issue is the UN rules regarding "Weapons of War" that many countries have.

As an example, the EU has an embargo on Zimbabwe for weapons of war. They have banned certain cartridges from being brought in. The .308 and .30-06 are thus not allowed on European carriers if you are headed to Zimbabwe. However, the .300 Win Mag is not on the list. Its not caliber specific, but rather cartridge specific.

Italy bans civilians from owning military chambered pistols, which is the source of the 9X21.

Mexico has a real hodge podge of firearms laws, but for a long time military cartridges were banned as someone noted above.