What's up with Al's Guns?

[eldo]

Anyone else ever see the sales staff have a melt down at Al's Guns in White Bear Lake?

I don't get in to Al's Guns too often but have had Al's do a transfer for me in the past, know the sales staff by name, and say "hi" when perusing Al's Gun's table at the MWC gun shows.

I stopped in Al's Guns about twenty minutes before quitting time and had a really p!$$-poor experience.

I noticed right away that Al's had a new Springfield M1A in the rack behind the gun counter.
I've been lusting after an M1A for quite some time and finally have the cash on hand to purchase one.

There's one other guy in the shop that the salesman is BS'n with and I patiently waited until they finished, then caught the salesman's eye and asked him if it was a Standard M1A in the rack. He said yes, handed to me a very nice example of an M1A with a good walnut stock & decent trigger and told me he would let it go for $100 less than this tag price, a deal which, although $250 more including tax than I could get one for online, is OK to me 'cause it's nice to be able to handle and inspect a rifle before purchasing, plus I could get it right now.
I could really feel the $$$ burning a hole in my pocket.

But... the M1A I prefer would be a Scout Squad for its shorter barrel, so I laid the rifle on the counter and asked the salesman what he would charge me for an M1A Scout Squad in walnut if he could get one. He pulled out his blue book and I went over to him to take a look. The fact that I could smell alcohol in the nearly empty glass on the counter next to the blue book should have been a tip-off of things to come.

The salesman said M1A's are really hard to get and told me give him a $100 deposit and he'd order me one. Meanwhile, I'm trying to decide if I should buy his nice in-stock Standard right then and there as an early Christmas present for myself, or wait and order the Scout Squad. I know Scout Squads can be kinda rare so I asked if he could check with his distributors before I lay down a deposit. At this point he started raising his voice and complaining about guys who "come into the shop with $200 or $300 dollars and expect to get something for nothing." So I tell the salesman, hey, I'm willing to put down a deposit for the rifle if you can tell me one of your distributors indeed has one, but not if I have to wait months for Springfield to build one. Now he's getting louder and insisting on me paying a deposit. I reply that maybe if I left my phone number, could he do me a favor and call his distributors at his convenience (after all, it was now ten to five on a Friday night) and if he found a Scout Squad I'd come back, make a deposit and a pay him cash, no credit cards, in $100 bills for the rifle.

He practically screams that the deposit is refundable, but I reply if he thinks the rifle is nearly impossible to get in the foreseeable future if it's not in his distributor chain, then what's the point in making a deposit right now and wouldn't it be a lot easier for both of us if he'd just make a phone call or two to find out first?

No way would he make the slightest effort to accommodate me.

So I told him that, as a customer, I am fully prepared to buy the Standard M1A he has in stock right now, in cash, for his quoted price, but I wish he'd check on the Scout Squad first, telling him I'd seen a few of them online so that there must be some of them out there.

At this point he slams the blue book on the counter and yells he doesn't care who I effen spend my money with.
Funny thing is, I saw this same salesman have a very similar melt down a few months ago with another customer who was trying to get the salesman to price-match a Rem 870 on sale at Gander, so his over the top reaction, although surprising, was not totally unexpected. Of course, by now I realized the disrespectful treatment I witnessed the prior customer receive wasn't a fluke, so no way in heck was I gonna fork over a $100 deposit to him on a long shot, let alone $1550 for his M1A Standard.

I was pretty cool about the whole exchange, never raising my voice, but the one maybe uncool thing I did do then was point to his empty adult beverage on the counter and suggest maybe it'd be better if he topped-off his glass.

He yelled at me to get out, spend your ef'n money somewhere else and he didn't care if I never F'n came in the shop again.

Well, by now I'm thinking all of the above was a pretty safe bet so I headed for the door, called him by his first name and wished him a straightforward, "Merry Christmas," as I backed out the door.
Since there was still the other customer in the shop, he had no choice but to sputter "Merry Christmas" as I closed the door behind me.

Pretty sad, really.
Maybe in the spirit of Christmas he'll reflect on how better to treat his customers in the future.
Al's can rest assured that I won't be back and will spend my dollars elsewhere.

[FJ540]

Al's drinking again, shocker! (it's sad, but that's Al)

It's a shame his personal issues come up so often, as he's got a whole bunch of cool guns and oodles of knowledge crammed between his ears. I've found it's much better to talk to him at the shows than go into his shop. The idea of actually fondling guns before buying them seems to be rather foreign to him. I agree with you, I'll often pay a premium for the ability to inspect the article I'm buying in person before being committed to it (and I'm a bottom feeder cheapskate according to Dawson ). I also like having a customer relationship with a store on big ticket items, so I have a place to go if I have problems rather than expecting someone on the other end of a phone to help me out.

He's quite the temperamental fellow. Don't ever ask about the shop getting robbed, as that will ruin any chances of getting a deal until he forgets who you are.

[Seismic Sam]

For some odd reason Al and I have always gotten along, and I've scored a couple of real gems from him. He picks up stuff out-of-state that you sometimes almost never see. Then again, I've never gone in 20 minutes before closing. I was totally unaware of his drinking problem. Sad....

[eldo]

Sam, you wondered if Al was the salesman I dealt with.
There's only been one guy behind the counter whenever I've been in there over the last fourteen years so I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

And yes, the gentleman who dresses up in boots, a nice suit and a string tie at the gun shows acted totally different then the peckerwood I suffered at Al's last night.

Other than watching him go ballistic once in the past on the poor schlub who was trying to get a price match on a sale 870 at Gander, he's treated me OK up until last night when he got all defensive and hostile.

He had no clue how the promise of making a simple phone call would have made him a guaranteed $1550 sale on a Standard M1A, if a $1700 Scout Squad M1A was determined to be unavailable, not to mention another happy customer and good sales word of mouth.

He'd been better off if he pissed in his own drink. Shame.

[FJ540]

He almost ran me out the door when I asked about a truck being driven through the front of the store. I'd read about it in the paper, and have no idea what he was thinking when he responded the way he did. He's been hit numerous times, and I guess that's a sore spot for him. I wasn't trying to push buttons, I was simply curious as to what happened, because I know he lives in the back and that's not a situation I'd like to encounter.

Pete confirmed my suspicions about the booze (it comes and goes), but I don't recall all the details and don't feel its right to smear someone who probably could use some help. Al drinks, and you want to avoid him when he does - that's pretty much the gist of me and Pete's conversation on the subject. Pete thought highly of Al as well, but also acknowledged that he's not the most personable of people all the time. Al didn't even seem all that buddy-buddy with Pete when we were there, and he'd been shopping there for years as well. I think it's just how Al is.

[samginko]

Al's a decent guy. He is completely trustworthy, and he doesn't gouge you. He does not own a volume store, so low balling on your part is not appreciated. That being said. Until he knows you, expect rough shopping experience. I don't think anyone here would say, he does what he does for the money.

[PileDriver]

That's probably the fifth time I've heard about something like that happening there, even a similar story on Google reviews. Guess I'll have to pass on visiting that one. I'm sick of some stores constantly being defended for the simple reason of... I have no idea why. "Oh, he's just that way". "Oh, they're sick of tire kickers". F that, if you're gonna be complete dickwad, I'll go elsewhere. If you're going to be drinking while handling firearms (something about all guns are always loaded...?), I'd rather get pointed at by a gomer behind the counter at Gander.

Sure, it's all about personal experience. That's why I like Buds. Good prices, fast, and I've talked with three different people there who were all great. I had one mild issue, and they stood behind their product 100%, and followed up. Maybe some people just don't have what it takes do deal with owning AND being in customer service of a B & M. Just put a damn sign out side, "I don't give a **** if you buy anything, I'm not here to help and sell my product, I don't do this for the money." I've just heard enough bad to never want to go, it's unfortunate.

[sawgrass]

Most of us know that alcohol changes almost everyone. Hopefully the experience will give Al cause for reflection. We have stopped in Al's many times and sadly haven't ever purchased anything. The last time we were there and it wasn't long ago
we had a nice talk about shooting, his collection of non-firearm memorabilia and he even shared some stories about his family and growing up out west. It was an enjoyable visit.

[dsm2nr]

I'm with Pile on this one. I haven't even heard of the place outside of this thread. But hearing the owner and only CS employee has a drinking problem and does so around firearms, is way worse than being flagged by a sober GM employee. This problem is compounded by him having anger issues. Personally, I still hold people responsible for their actions when they're drunk or drinking. "That's just xxxxx" is not a valid excuse for decisions made by anyone.

I will not be stepping a foot inside Al's.

[OldmanFCSA]

Al's a decent guy. He is completely trustworthy, and he doesn't gouge you. He does not own a volume store, so low balling on your part is not appreciated. That being said. Until he knows you, expect rough shopping experience. I don't think anyone here would say, he does what he does for the money.

I agree - Al is Al. You need to get to know him. He lives in his business, and his business is him. Like all of us, he has his bad days, only his days are on display at his business as the only employee. He cannot tell an employee to go home because of his actions, only because that would close the shop. How many of you are sole proprieters (sp?) of a business? Don't pass judgement on him because 1 or 2 bad experiences, get to know him instead. And don't bad-mouth to others to not support his business, instead encourage others to visit his shop, and form their OWN opinions.

[Squib Joe]

I always do my best to have only kind words about every gun store in town.. except for one. If the alcohol part is true it explains a lot.

[brado]

Al's a decent guy. He is completely trustworthy, and he doesn't gouge you. He does not own a volume store, so low balling on your part is not appreciated. That being said. Until he knows you, expect rough shopping experience. I don't think anyone here would say, he does what he does for the money.

Low balling? What do you need to do kiss this guys butt.

[EastSideRich]

I can't believe it took as long for the fact he's drinking while handling guns all day is not a good thing (and anger management issues to boot - great!).
I'm probably a little less critical than most of people handling firearms with a little alcohol in their system; having said that, this guy seems to drink enough that his judgment is impaired. That and his anger problems are not a good a good combination.

I've only been in there a couple of times and the guy was a dick. We weren't asking him to take stuff out of cases and attempted to chat a bit with him, but maybe he was drunk and ornery those days too.
If business is not that good right now, maybe selling more guns would help. Treating people a little better might help him sell more guns (like to the OP).
That would be my dream job (yeah I know running a business is stressful). You'd think he'd have a better attitude.

[OldmanFCSA]

I always do my best to have only kind words about every gun store in town.. except for one. If the alcohol part is true it explains a lot.

Do you have an alcoholic drink at home?
Have you ever had just one drink and had the world tell everyone you were drunk while handling guns? You are.

Al's attitude and actions don't fit the mainstream of America, but it is what he is. He is loud, he is gruff, he is caring to customers who treat him the same. I've had long good conversations with him discussing things most would not touch. I've never bought a gun from him, but still go there, treat him as I would want to be treated, and look at his selection, hoping one day to find the rare item I want. (Don't ask, as I don't know, but will when I see it!). He has had "customers" in his shop that "signal" the only reason they are there is to check the security, check the entry points, check the inventory, "casing the place". It has happened even while I was there. They become obvious after a while. These occurrances affect his general attitude toward customers until he gets to know them, as I would do under similar circumstances.

[OldmanFCSA]

Sam, you wondered if Al was the salesman I dealt with.
There's only been one guy behind the counter whenever I've been in there over the last fourteen years so I'll let you draw your own conclusions. ..........................................................
.

I have seen one other person behind the counter at Al's, and he was a jerk. Al is ruff and gruff, but this guy was a complete jerk. Hopefully the guy you saw was this guy and not Al.

I will have a talk with Al the next time I see him - about public opinion - not trying to change what Al is or does. Only he can do that, after hearing the facts.