How to sell

[farmerj]

you bought the gun used from a third party. You sold the gun to a third party.

At no time did you complete a 4473. How is the gun going to be traced to you?

[photogpat]

you bought the gun used from a third party. You sold the gun to a third party.

At no time did you complete a 4473. How is the gun going to be traced to you?

I addressed that already, and indicated it was my opinion. By law you're free to do pretty much whatever you want...so go right ahead.

[Erud]

If you've ever had the FBI show up and ask about a gun you've owned in the past, who you sold it to, do you have documentation to verify its legal sale, was it sold legally, did you ask the right questions of the buyer, you will be glad you have the bill of sale. A rifle I had in the past was used to shoot a Federal Marshal in Idaho. no questions please.

No questions, my ass. So, if you hadn't had a bill of sale for said rifle, would you now be doing federal time related to the murder of a federal Marshall? Just complying with the law and selling it legally without a bill of sale is not enought to keep you out of prison?

These are serious questions.

Another question to anyone making this argument; if I were to buy a hammer or axe or chainsaw from your garage sale, would you require a DL copy and bill of sale in case the guy I sell it to later at my own garage sale uses it in a crime?

[Hammer99...]

They have to prove you knew the buyer either wasn't a resident or wasn't allowed to own firearms. And I can tell you another thing. Even if I had a bill of sale I certainly wouldn't hand it over without a warrant. STFU includes not turning over documentation that proves you sold the firearm used in a crime.

[Oaktree]

The other posters are correct -- a handshake and a question is the minimum, and I wouldn't profess to tell someone else what to do within the law...but...its a matter of what's legal, and whats a good idea.

Have you got the cash, proof, or time to defend yourself in a trial when that guy you sold the gun to gives/sells it to his cousin, who uses it to rob a little old lady at Target -- getting caught by the cops, who then trace the gun, via serial number (or fingerprints), back to you?

IMHO - seeing an in-state ID, a valid PTC/PTP, and Bill of Sale gives you that proof, and if you think there's enough info on someone's DL to steal their identity, you need to loosen your tinfoil a bit. With a little work, and a little lying, you can look up people's D/L #'s and addresses via DMV website, and criminal record via BCA website.

Anything else sale-wise, and you risk showing up on another one of Bloomberg's sting videos. I'm reasonably certain that Heather/Joan & Co. are making one in MN presently as well...

I didn't mean to start such a crap storm. I think I will end up keeping my Kimber because at no point is $850 worth any trouble with the popo asking question about a gun registered in my name.

[goett047]

They have to prove you knew the buyer either wasn't a resident or wasn't allowed to own firearms. And I can tell you another thing. Even if I had a bill of sale I certainly wouldn't hand it over without a warrant. STFU includes not turning over documentation that proves you sold the firearm used in a crime.

This x1000

[45Badger]

Ask to see buyer's valid MN driver's license or state issued ID, ask him if he's prohibited by law from owning a handgun. He says NO, I am not. He hands you cash. You hand him gun. You shake hands and drive off. Done.

Anything anyone else tells you is ********.

This. The bill of sale thing bugs the crap out of me. Why should I give personal info like a copy of my DL to random guy from the Internet to do God knows what with when the law does not require it? Why impose silly, made-up restrictions on each other to do something that's perfectly legal and moral? We are already made to jump through enough pointless hoops to own and use guns that I see no need to add any more ourselves. I'll show you my valid license and permit so you can verify who I am but that's it.

Double this. Anything else is silly and paranoid.

[goett047]

I will sign a bill of sale with my name and the gun's info on it but anything more is beyond silly

[45Badger]

I didn't mean to start such a crap storm. I think I will end up keeping my Kimber because at no point is $850 worth any trouble with the popo asking question about a gun registered in my name.

1) You didn't start a crap storm. The same worryninnies who are worried about this come out of the woodwork every time a guy asks this . The same nonworryninnies also show up .
2) It is PERFECTLY, 100% legal for you to do a private sale with a MN state resident who responds in the negative to this simple question, "Is there anything that prohibits you from purchasing or possessing this firearm". Anything else is feel good BS.
3) Don't be a wuss! I might want to buy that Kimber to keep it's brother company

[EastSideRich]

I didn't mean to start such a crap storm. I think I will end up keeping my Kimber because at no point is $850 worth any trouble with the popo asking question about a gun registered in my name.

Don't let these guys get you paranoid.
Just ask to see a DL and PTC/PTP.
I would recommend posting it for sale in the classifieds here. I've done a couple of transactions with guys here, and they both seemed like stand-up guys.
I think with most of the people here you're not going to have to worry about the law knocking on your door.
If it would make you feel better, write the guy's name and the gun's SN on a post-it note and throw it in the back of your safe just in case, but I really don't think you'll need it.

Also, who cares if the cops do come knockin?
"I sold it to so-and-so; go talk to him".
Good luck with the sale.

[Thunderjohn]

The problem is rarely due to the guy you sold it to.
Guns get sold so many times that it doesn't usually matter if you know the buyer.
It's the guy that bought it from him, or the guy after him.
And many times the paper trail ends, but when it does lead to you it's nice to be able
to show some evidence. You're not always innocent until proven guilty.

Best advice I can give you, since I've had a couple calls from the ATF before I got my FFL,
is that if you only want to sell to someone that will sign a bill of sale with their info on it, then
only sell to those guys. There are plenty of guys out there that'll give you their info.
If they won't and you don't feel comfortable, then don't sell to them. It's your choice.

It's different in the real world when the ATF wants to know what happened to this gun.