Need radio communication help.

[OldmanFCSA]

Not many trees around !



Use Ctrl+ to enlarge picture, targets near top of hill, pits below ground in steel lined bunker, to left of sand pie.
Mirage makes targets very difficult to see!
View is from the firing line.

On Sight-in day, we use clay pigeons on sand pile for targets. Our direct hit rate is low.

http://www.alliancerifleclub.com

[farmerj]

well, you can get some wire and lay it out and leave it. Even if you run it out on a set of t-posts and wire insulators. That problem would be solved.

You could then use either a pair of TA-1's or TA-312 phones.

There are also repeaters that can be used for FRS/GMRS radio systems. I have never looked into them because I consider these radio's a joke.

Another option is to get a set of business band radios (Part 90) and use them.

Further past that, have you got a couple of ham radio guys in the club. These guys have HT radios (Part 93) that are just as capable as the Part 90 radios in business band.

Your other option is going to be CB's. Forget anything with a standard rubber duck antenna. Even a Part 90 or 93 radio sucks for range with those cheesy things.

You'll need a small AGM battery, small CB, mag mount antenna and a pizza pan to get it to work nicely. The pizza pan is the ground plane for your mag mount antenna. My mobile radio gets out about 10-15 miles on 5 watts power with the antenna sitting on a pizza pan sitting in the house. I know it will reach the repeater 22 miles away on 55 watts.

[Seismic Sam]

Damn!! Where is this? To the problem of no trees, buy the longest 4x4 you can from Menard's, or maybe two and splice them together, and then do the Iwo Jima flag planting thing with the 102" antenna already attached. (And a 4' deep hole previously dug) Fill in the hole with Sackcrete, a pour water in the hole, and brace it from all 4 sides. An American flag would probably make for some inspiring decoration and also a wind indicator at the target.

[farmerj]

no need for a 102" antenna for what he's wanting to do. If it was for artillery spotting 10-15 miles down the road, it'd be a whole other ball game.


Get the right CB you will have a 5 W PA system as well as a NOAA weather radio to boot.

http://www.rightchannelradios.com/midla ... o-600.html

All of this can be packaged nicely into a 50 cal ammo box too.

[OldmanFCSA]

With work a hard-wired connection would be great. It could not be done line-of-sight but would have to follow property fence lines and be buried in several locations to allow for vehicle travel. This would permit a speaker system on either end with a call-up provision.
HOWEVER, a wireless radio IS REQUIRED in the Pits for proper communication with the firing line when Walking-the-Line. There is no way a hard-wired radio would work in and amongst the people, steel supports, target frames, etc.
The road to and from the Pits crosses the firing line twice. Line must be COLD and COMMUNICATED when transporting.

[farmerj]

then you are going to have to spend the money on getting a DECENT hand held business band class radio. These would also require the club to then get an FCC license to operate it.

It would be your own dedicated frequency and system.

Check with them. One of our ham radio club members work there.
http://www.actionradio.com/webstore/

[ktech]

Farmerj - who's your HAM club member? I work there as well; I'm in the process of getting him something set up.

[Ironbear]

then you are going to have to spend the money on getting a DECENT hand held business band class radio. These would also require the club to then get an FCC license to operate it.

He could set himself up with some business radios, and operate under a MURS (free) license.

[farmerj]

MURS is the 2 meter equal to FRS which is 70 cm.
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/multi-u ... ice-murs-0
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/family- ... ervice-frs

FRS is 1/2 watt, MURS is 2 watt and GMRS is 5 watt max. So if they can't do it with a GMRS radio, it's not likely the MURS will be much better.

His biggest drawback is going to be the antenna. most cheap chincy rubber ducks are not up to the task like this.

[arizona98tj]

It seems the biggest problem is that previous attempts have included radios where the antenna is down in the pit, below grade. It is not surprising that poor results have been obtained.

So, going with a low cost approach.....has anyone ever tried putting a full sized CB antenna (with ground radials) on 15' or 20' of mast....just like you often times see on a person's house? One of these at both ends would work wonders in improving the quality of the sent and received signal. As long you get a little bit of height with the antennas, most any radio, HF, VHF, or UHF will get the job done. We are talking well under a mile.

[OldmanFCSA]

It seems the biggest problem is that previous attempts have included radios where the antenna is down in the pit, below grade. It is not surprising that poor results have been obtained.

So, going with a low cost approach.....has anyone ever tried putting a full sized CB antenna (with ground radials) on 15' or 20' of mast....just like you often times see on a person's house? One of these at both ends would work wonders in improving the quality of the sent and received signal. As long you get a little bit of height with the antennas, most any radio, HF, VHF, or UHF will get the job done. We are talking well under a mile.

This was one of my original thoughts, but the pit and line radios must travel full length of pit or line for proper range commands. Dragging a cable, that is connected to antennas, thru the pits would be difficult considering the lack of room and the number of individuals required to properly man the pits.

I believe we have a solution in the works for using commercial radios. The appropriate FCSA members are currently donating to the cause, and a purchase should occur soon.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, ideas, plans, and consideration !!!

OldmanFCSA

[arizona98tj]

Good luck on the project....I hope you get it all worked out and running well (and safely too!).

Quick question....how many targets are managed at the pit?

[OldmanFCSA]

6 at minimum, 14 at maximum, 6 foot square targets are 9 feet on centerline, "hospital" targets required on each end

150+ feet of pits total, 75 feet either side of center.

Firing Line is longer yet.

[Daddyo]

Use Ctrl+ to enlarge picture, targets near top of hill, pits below ground in steel lined bunker, to left of sand pie.
Mirage makes targets very difficult to see!
View is from the firing line.

There's your problem then. You've got grounded steel all around your antenna, basically trying to transmit from inside a faraday cage. I would imagine any antenna at all above ground level would work. Do FRS radios have an external antenna jack like cellphones? Then maybe you could put one of those car roof stubbies at each station.

I've got a 4.5ft whip for the cb in my truck. I transmit about 5 mile radius and receive about 2x that (or Mexico, depending on atmosphere and how much static I want to listen to).

[arizona98tj]

Do FRS radios have an external antenna jack like cellphones? Then maybe you could put one of those car roof stubbies at each station.

No.....FCC rules prohibit FRS antennas from being remotely mounted from the transmitter. As such, they do not have detachable antennas nor do they have external antenna jacks.