Front Sight Forum

[omega8omega]

I have been permanently banned from the Front Sight first family forum. Apparently they do not want any complaints of the facility on the forum site. I have not had my membership revoked or anything so I will still go there though.

"Don't worry JP.... In response to a valued member such as yourself being banned, I'm going to start an alternative forum at frontsighter.com

I hope the masses from frontsight.com will follow suit and abandon that forum to join the new one in an effort to show unity and solidarity".

I am sorry but I am missing the point. "To show unity and solidarity" with what?
I have been at FrontSight several times and I liked it very much. I wish I could pay $250 for my membership, but i paid more - it is still a good investment.
Low cost of membership will bring more people to training and this is good.
IP has multimillion houses - more power to him. He is a millioner, and he is not hiding this fact.He created a good school and it is profitable, so what?
Why should i be concern about the wages his instructors have? My concern is quality of classes and I am satisfied. Should I refuse my Iphone b/c it was made by chinese workers with very low wages?
JP - what is the problem?

[jp8775]

Omega, you should not promise people stuff you have no intention of delivering. That is all IP has done, that’s what got him in trouble with his first major lawsuit that took away most of his money. He then continued to promise new members lockers and toilets and you name it that for the next 10 years he only held up his side of the deal when it suited him. While he was not building the toilets and lockers and facility up dates he promises he was building house #2 and #3 for himself. Instructors have told me of his life style.
So unless I am missing something here why should I not be pissed? Then as if he did not piss off his loyal members enough, he started to sell what he sold us for several thousands to new members for a couple hundred. Again unless I am missing something here why should we not be pissed? You see Omega you have not been a member as long as we have you got in when you did not get screwed.

[omega8omega]

JP, of cause you have right to be pissed (or not) for any reason or without one. I am not infringing that right.
Let's put it this way:
- FrontSight does not provide students with lockers, minifridges, lightrail transportation, showers and tennins courts
- FrontSight is not all-inclusive resort and never meant to be.
- IP as owner does a great job promoting shooting sports and 2nd amendment, making his classes affordable, while having 3 times less luxury houses than Al Gore has.
- FrontSight is awesome place to get/build-up/hone, etc one's shooting skills, learn gun safety and awareness.

I don't know how long have you been a member of FrontSight, i went there first time in 2008. If you have been going there longer, even you don't like facilities and need lockers, it just tells how good classes are, right?
It is getting warmer and warmer outside - let's get together one day and go shooting.

[Pat]

I.P was a paul bearer at the funeral of a friend of mine in Napa, CA. I.P. is a very conservative Roman Catholic, despite his ties to another organization, which is not a church, but more a way for rich guys to keep their money safe from the tax man.

When I met him at the funeral, he was most cordial. Can't say a bad thing about him. You might think that his marketing efforts are over the top, but hey, he has been very successful. And isn't success what America is all about?

[jp8775]

JP, of cause you have right to be pissed (or not) for any reason or without one. I am not infringing that right.
Let's put it this way:
- FrontSight does not provide students with lockers, minifridges, lightrail transportation, showers and tennins courts
- FrontSight is not all-inclusive resort and never meant to be.
- IP as owner does a great job promoting shooting sports and 2nd amendment, making his classes affordable, while having 3 times less luxury houses than Al Gore has.
- FrontSight is awesome place to get/build-up/hone, etc one's shooting skills, learn gun safety and awareness.

I don't know how long have you been a member of FrontSight, i went there first time in 2008. If you have been going there longer, even you don't like facilities and need lockers, it just tells how good classes are, right?
It is getting warmer and warmer outside - let's get together one day and go shooting.

Say what you want, he promised all that to the people who would drink his cool aid. That to me is a dishonorable person. There were supposed to be Lockers to leave your guns and ammo there so you could fly there fly there, that was a promise. I could make a huge list of unfulfilled promises in return for our tens of thousands of dollars. We the people who purchased memberships for tens of thousands of dollars built that place with our money and then he turned his back on us a sold memberships for a couple of hundred dollars and you do not think we should be pissed? You got there latter,you got the cheap memberships. Our money built the place.

[omega8omega]

OK, OK
be pissed.

[jp8775]

OK, OK
be pissed.

I am sorry if I am pissed, but I get tire of the people who did not get screwed telling those who built the place with their huge donations from their lifetime memberships to chill out. Those who got in when the memberships were a few hundred have nothing to complain about of course, just don’t tell us we are wrong to complain. I have no beef with you, but ya I am pissed, so are about 10,000 others. We have not even talked about the guns that people are waiting for that were sign up bonuses’. Some people have been waiting over a year still no guns, I have been waiting 8 months for FS to transfer my old memberships to my son and his girl friend so they can use it. That was part of the membership up grade deal, yet to be honored. The list goes on and on. If you complain they ban you from the forum. You really do not know the half of what’s going on there I have been following it for over 10 years. .

[jp8775]

I just got an email from Front Sight 3/8/2012, he said a few months ago in his last promotion that “ I know I have said in the past that there would be no more Lifetime memberships and then sold some again but this time I mean it, really” Well he has found some (found) how do you find some foreclosed memberships? How do you lose them in the first place? And he is offering them now? What kind of person does this to his members?

[David]

An egomaniacal snake oil salesman. The guy should be selling multilevel marketing schemes instead of running a school.

I've said it before, but no matter how good and cheap the training is there, I just don't want to give that guy any business. They aren't any better than any of the other big schools, so it's not like I'm losing out on anything with that decision.

[jp8775]

The pisser now is to go there for my free membership classes that I paid a fortune for I have to again pay him $50 each for my wife and me to have a background check done again. I hold a FFL 01, 02, 07 and a SOT As a manufacturer of guns and a dealer. They don’t care; they say they still have to do their own background check. What check could they do that would usurp my federal background checks for my firearm licenses? I asked them what type of checks they do and they will not answer. I would think a copy of my current licenses would be sufficient; it’s this stuff that makes me pissed off at them. If what they were really doing was making sure that I was not a terrorist that should be sufficient, but it’s not It’s all about the money.

[mmcnx2]

OK, OK
be pissed.

I am sorry if I am pissed, but I get tire of the people who did not get screwed telling those who built the place with their huge donations from their lifetime memberships to chill out. Those who got in when the memberships were a few hundred have nothing to complain about of course, just don’t tell us we are wrong to complain. I have no beef with you, but ya I am pissed, so are about 10,000 others. We have not even talked about the guns that people are waiting for that were sign up bonuses’. Some people have been waiting over a year still no guns, I have been waiting 8 months for FS to transfer my old memberships to my son and his girl friend so they can use it. That was part of the membership up grade deal, yet to be honored. The list goes on and on. If you complain they ban you from the forum. You really do not know the half of what’s going on there I have been following it for over 10 years. .

So you got into a deal that clearly did not have all the details in writting(if they are then a lawyer would be in order) now you bitch that the other party is taking advantage of what you believe are gaps in the deal. Guess you should have read the fine print(or lack of it). This is why slick marketing people exist, there is a sucker born every minute; buyer beware.

[FredsBank]

So you got into a deal that clearly did not have all the details in writting(if they are then a lawyer would be in order) now you bitch that the other party is taking advantage of what you believe are gaps in the deal. Guess you should have read the fine print(or lack of it). This is why slick marketing people exist, there is a sucker born every minute; buyer beware.

Wow. That's pretty harsh. I think the OP has valid points.

[jp8775]

OK, OK
be pissed.

I am sorry if I am pissed, but I get tire of the people who did not get screwed telling those who built the place with their huge donations from their lifetime memberships to chill out. Those who got in when the memberships were a few hundred have nothing to complain about of course, just don’t tell us we are wrong to complain. I have no beef with you, but ya I am pissed, so are about 10,000 others. We have not even talked about the guns that people are waiting for that were sign up bonuses’. Some people have been waiting over a year still no guns, I have been waiting 8 months for FS to transfer my old memberships to my son and his girl friend so they can use it. That was part of the membership up grade deal, yet to be honored. The list goes on and on. If you complain they ban you from the forum. You really do not know the half of what’s going on there I have been following it for over 10 years. .

So you got into a deal that clearly did not have all the details in writting(if they are then a lawyer would be in order) now you bitch that the other party is taking advantage of what you believe are gaps in the deal. Guess you should have read the fine print(or lack of it). This is why slick marketing people exist, there is a sucker born every minute; buyer beware.

We you are wrong, I clearly have the emails that clearly state what you will receive when you give him your money as well as what he put on the internet saved in print. No one expected him to not honor his part of the deal. Yes I could take him to court you and I know what that would cost. He knows what he is doing, taking advantage of loose wording everything is worded even now that way. So the best people can do is what I am doing, make sure people understand you will most likely not get most of what he is promising. So am I wrong in doing that? I really like people who are not screwed telling people who got screwed to chill out. Really

[mmcnx2]

We you are wrong, I clearly have the emails that clearly state what you will receive when you give him your money as well as what he put on the internet saved in print. No one expected him to not honor his part of the deal. Yes I could take him to court you and I know what that would cost. He knows what he is doing, taking advantage of loose wording everything is worded even now that way. So the best people can do is what I am doing, make sure people understand you will most likely not get most of what he is promising. So am I wrong in doing that? I really like people who are not screwed telling people who got screwed to chill out. Really

I've done enough contract work in business to tell you that unless it was in writting within the membership agreement you most likely don't have a leg to stand on. Most agreements have a clause that states any thing not specifically stated in the agreement is not binding, and most will specifically exclude any other communications, versions or marketing materials. So you can have printouts of anything you want, he can tell you anything you want to hear, but if they are not part of the agreement then it is tough luck. Welcome to the adult table.

[Holland&Holland]

We you are wrong, I clearly have the emails that clearly state what you will receive when you give him your money as well as what he put on the internet saved in print. No one expected him to not honor his part of the deal. Yes I could take him to court you and I know what that would cost. He knows what he is doing, taking advantage of loose wording everything is worded even now that way. So the best people can do is what I am doing, make sure people understand you will most likely not get most of what he is promising. So am I wrong in doing that? I really like people who are not screwed telling people who got screwed to chill out. Really

I've done enough contract work in business to tell you that unless it was in writting within the membership agreement you most likely don't have a leg to stand on. Most agreements have a clause that states any thing not specifically stated in the agreement is not binding, and most will specifically exclude any other communications, versions or marketing materials. So you can have printouts of anything you want, he can tell you anything you want to hear, but if they are not part of the agreement then it is tough luck. Welcome to the adult table.

So everytime you purchase something or some service you have an attorney review it? Must be nice being on the receiving end of your legal fees.