PTC Classes

[XDM45]

I'm looking for recommendations for PTC Classes. Right now I'm still working on my marksmanship, so I'm in the researching phase right now. My plan is to find the the most comprehensive (ie: covers all areas.. legal, psychological, anything and everything relevant) PTC teacher / class out there, so my first question is:

Who do you recommend and why do you recommend them and their training class?

After I complete and pass my PTC classes and qualifications, I'd like to take some defensive training courses because while having a weapon and a PTC is all fine and dandy, you need to have so many other things as well when it comes to properly handling a crisis situation. No one is ever 100% prepared or does everything perfectly either; but the goal is be as close to that 100% perfect as possible in all areas. (legal, psychological, physical, emotional, decision-making in a split-second, etc.)

I'm no fool to think that I'll have all of this down pat in a few classes, no way. I know that this is a lifetime of constant training primarily by one's self because if that time comes, it's all on you. Classes are merely a good foundation, so on that note, I ask the following questions:

Who do you recommend and why do you recommend them and their training class(es)?

If you have the contact information, website, etc for the person/agency/group, please post it here. Thank you.

Lastly, has anyone ever taken the PTC class from Shade's Landing? Any recommendations for or against them?

[bstrawse]

I would support without hesitation - in no particular order - for PTC classes:
Andrew Rothman - mngun.com
Paul Blincow - mntactics.com
Blue Line Defense (Paul, Terry, Mark, & others) - bluelinedefense.com
Don Larson - http://mncarrypermit.com/
Tom Tousignant - http://www.ifiapermittocarry.com/

These are all people I know and trust and who I know would do it right. There are many other instructors with strong reputations that I don't know personally - others can comment and recommend them.

If you're looking for other training beyond the PTC - I've taken all of Don Larson's defensive handgun training and would highly recommend him for this -- again, it's mncarrypermit.com - he posts his classes here on the forum as well. Others teach Defensive Handgun classes here in the Cities but I've not taken them so can't really comment.

Hope this helps -
Bryan

[EAJuggalo]

I would not take a class from Shade's Landing but that is my personal preference. I would happily take a class from Plblark, DonL, SAM or TTousi without thinking twice about it. I know there are others but I would have those four at the top of my list, probably with Michael Martin as well. I would take another class from Phorvick as well, but his class is probably not quite what you're looking for. All those that I've mentioned I've either taken classes from or have seen doing teaching as well as having known them on this type of forum for at least three years, most longer than that. These instructors are all people I would trust to teach a PTC class to my wife, I don't know how much higher praise I can give than that.

As far as further training once you have your PTC, I'd highly recommend DonL's holster class. I've taken level 1 and really want to do the others but time and money have limited me so far. There are a lot of people that have taken this class and I don't know of anyone that didn't enjoy it and learn something.

[hunterfreakhd]

http://www.itfcpro.com/Home_Page.html
For your training question after you get your ptc I would recommend Rolf Penzel.He is a member on here as well.His primary focus is on Mental preparation.I have taken his holster class and I am signed up for Defensive handgun course coming up on the 25th.He is clear and concise And a great teacher!

[DitchDR]

+1 on Don Larson. FWIW if you do it through Don when he has a class at the Henderson Range, you would save on the range fee because you are already a member.

[XDM45]

+1 on Don Larson. FWIW if you do it through Don when he has a class at the Henderson Range, you would save on the range fee because you are already a member.

Sounds like Don is the man. He's also at BPR, my indoor place to shoot too. Thanks for the advice guys.

[Anokamnman]

I recommend paul at blue line defense. Great instructor.

[LarryP]

Mncarrypermit.com
&

http://www.ifiapermittocarry.com/


needs to update their website! it's 2012 guys!!

I would support without hesitation - in no particular order - for PTC classes:
Andrew Rothman - mngun.com
Paul Blincow - mntactics.com
Blue Line Defense (Paul, Terry, Mark, & others) - bluelinedefense.com
Don Larson - http://mncarrypermit.com/
Tom Tousignant - http://www.ifiapermittocarry.com/

These are all people I know and trust and who I know would do it right. There are many other instructors with strong reputations that I don't know personally - others can comment and recommend them.

If you're looking for other training beyond the PTC - I've taken all of Don Larson's defensive handgun training and would highly recommend him for this -- again, it's mncarrypermit.com - he posts his classes here on the forum as well. Others teach Defensive Handgun classes here in the Cities but I've not taken them so can't really comment.

Hope this helps -
Bryan

[ammosponge]

i can only speak to the class i took, but i felt that burnsville pistol's class was good. i've only ever taken one, but i had a much better understanding of what i was getting myself into.
there may be better out there, but i think that they did a very good job of explaining what a carry permit is, and what it isn't, and the legal ramifications of carrying.

[SGT.E.USMC]

.

[promod1385]

I would recommend Joe Penez with PlaneCentsLLC. Great class, lots of good info and very helpful for the novice/new handgun owner.

My buddy took a class rom Cobb (a member here) and he really enjoyed the experience. Sounds like they got to spend a lot more time shooting than I did during the class.

[XDM45]

XDM45,

I would recommend Shade's Landing for your PTC training. Not only did I get my original PTC cert there pre-military, but I got and maintain my NRA and also MN level instructor certs through them as well. Some could call me biased because I have become extremely fond of the people and also the services they offer, but I will also say that the situational awareness, proportionality, physiological/psychological piece in their classes is excellent and will change your mindset. I don't really understand why EAJuggalo recommends against Shade's? They've had several thousand of happy customers to date.

On another note training and repetition is paramount. You revert to your training and often lose your fine motor skills to gross motor skills. I have seen people react differently to the stress of combat. I have seen Marines stand up with no cover while receiving fire, just to fire shots in excitement. I have also seen trained, hardened men lay one the ground when shot at, reluctant to even peek above the berm, not wanting any part of it. Many who have served at least halfway understand these stresses and maybe you should look at getting your advanced training from a military vet... I don't even live in MN currently so I am not campaigning for myself!

Regards,

-E

You bring up EXACTLY the point of training constantly and consistently - and even then, you still don't know how you will react until "it" happens, whatever "it" is. No matter how long or how one has been training, you just never know. We all hope to be prepared, do the best we can, but in the end, you just don't know and anyone that says they do is probably lying because each situation is unique.

What I want to do is be as prepared as possible.

What I DON'T want to do is assume any previous training is of any value and/or be someone who gets a PTC and that's it.

[EAJuggalo]

Mr. Shade has over the years engaged in some business practices that I abhor and choose to take my business elsewhere. I've never taken a class from him, I've never met him that I'm aware. The only interactions I've ever had with him have been on this website, and those interactions left me not wanting to do business with him.

[SGT.E.USMC]

.

[XDM45]

XDM45,

There are very few basic carry courses that will provide you with what you desire. The majority of them out there will cover an important wide variety of subjects including law, ethics, escalation/proportionality etc.. and the basics of carry and handling. One cannot hope to attain such skills in an 8-hour class that is formulated for the average joe. Ultimately it will come down to you building on some of the skills from your mentors and instructors in your own time. I cant tell you how many times I've ticked off my friends and girlfriends using my SIRT laser trainer on the TV, or irritated them with the sound of me drawing my training pistols, over and over again. It will be you designating that ammo-free are in your home to safely dry fire, it will be you repetitively practicing in that area with your carry gun of choice.

You might consider USPSA and IDPA leagues as the stresses of those drills can simulate what you might feel engaging a bad guy, and it will help reveal your failure points. If you tell your brain its real, to some extent it becomes real. Train how you fight, and every draw from your holster is another chance at building good muscle memory, so do it how you would exactly the same every time. Know your short-comings and always keep an open mind when receiving new instruction. I am lucky because uncle sam and all of you pay for me to hone and maintain my skillsets. Most dont have that luxury. Either way, it looks like you have the proper attitude and mindset to begin your training and I hope you achieve your goals.

EAJuggalo,

I am sorry to hear that there is bad blood between you and Mr. Shade and I hope that someday you can bury the hatchet. After receiving several great courses from him while at home on leave, his family has treated me very well and they are now all friends of mine. His advanced courses are great and incorporated alot of militarisms in it which was easy for me to understand. His son Jason is a really talented gunsmith and I retain his services whenever I have complex work or when the CA-MN gap will permit it. That says alot because I am very, VERY particular and demand perfection in every aspect of my life. Its hard to find good service these days!

-E

Sgt, Thank you first and foremost for your service to our country. It is appreciated and respected.

Secondly, thank you for the advice. I realize that it's going to be 90% me and 10% training in developing and maintaining my knowledge and skill sets; but I am 100% held accountable and responsible at all times by myself. Mistakes and negligence simply cannot be made when a weapon is involved. I believe that zero-tolerance is mandatory at all times, and that it's constantly training yourself mentally, physically, with your weapon, doing everything you can to prepare.

I know that I could train from birth until my death and never feel that I am prepared enough, good enough, or "ready" because you can always do better, learn more things, fine tune, etc. Maybe I'm being a perfectionist and unrealistic, overly hard on myself, but it must be done right 100% of the time. I just want to start out right with a good foundation. How will I do that and how long will that take? I don't know, so I'm open to the advice from people who know more than I do and I can learn from.

I think part of the key is to pick your sources. Listen to everyone, but take advice from those who can walk it, not just talk it. I think there are many people here who are very well-educated in weapons, safety, and definitely walk-the-walk so this is a good forum for me to learn from. Like you, I'm also picky, so I may have to have his son replace my sights on my pistol when I go to have that done eventually.