*Serious* Selling firearms w/o license for profit

[Tromix-Saiga-12]

There is an unlicensed individual from the Bloomington/Savage/Shakopee area that has been ordering PSA & ECG (Palmetto State Armory & East Coast Guns) AR-15 lower receivers in bulk & reselling them on Armslist.com. He specifically indicates he is 'not a dealer' & 'has sold xx amount'. I assume he is using an FFL services in the aforementioned areas for the initial transfer. A customer came into the office today & brought it to my attention. Anyway, whoever the unlicensed individual is, they have no idea how fooked they are. It is a serious fed crime for dealing in firearms without a license. The ATF will eventually audit the FFL where the transfers took place; see that "Joe Blow/eric holder" ordered & transferred all these lowers. They'll proceed to make photo copies of the bound book, knock on the transferree's door, shoot their dog(s) & ..... They will then ask him/her to produce the lower receivers on-site. Obviously he/she won't be able to. BOOM!!!

I personally couldn't care less what this person is doing, as I am not the BATFE, but he obviously has no idea how bad he has fooked himself. There simply is no way out of it unless they were able to track down 9 out of 10 buyers & buy them back. For further proof, read his for-sale ads & you can see how oblivious he is to the laws & regs:

http://www.armslist.com/posts/432489/bl ... and-new---
http://www.armslist.com/posts/425604/bl ... -last-one-

I am a steadfast atheist, but may God help his soul.....ignorance is not an excuse.

[cobb]

What about those that may have used this FFL and receive a firearm, receiver or lower? Maybe in no violation of a federal law, but could that person forfeit his firearm, so loose any money involved?

[tazdevil]

The line from the armslist site

"Report illegal firearms activity to 1-800-ATF-GUNS or your local police department."

MIGHT make all buyers responsible. Not sure, someone with more legal xpertise needed, but I wouldn't buy unless I spoke to ATF first and verified I'm not in trouble for buying.

[Tromix-Saiga-12]

What about those that may have used this FFL and receive a firearm, receiver or lower? Maybe in no violation of a federal law, but could that person forfeit his firearm, so loose any money involved?

No worries. But, when an IOI (Industry Operations Investigator) arrives to audit an FFL's A&D book (aquisition & disposition; aka 'Bound Book'), they will see several consecutive or multiple repetitive logs in the A&D book from the same 'transferree'. It obviously will arouse their curiosity & a raise a red flag. It's a fact they they will come to your door to fish. Whether you let them in without a warrant is up to you...

[Tromix-Saiga-12]

The line from the armslist site

"Report illegal firearms activity to 1-800-ATF-GUNS or your local police department."

MIGHT make all buyers responsible. Not sure, someone with more legal xpertise needed, but I wouldn't buy unless I spoke to ATF first and verified I'm not in trouble for buying.

As an unwitting buyer (unless one is a felon), I'd only be concerned about a 'clawback'.

[bstrawse]

The line from the armslist site

"Report illegal firearms activity to 1-800-ATF-GUNS or your local police department."

MIGHT make all buyers responsible. Not sure, someone with more legal xpertise needed, but I wouldn't buy unless I spoke to ATF first and verified I'm not in trouble for buying.

Why would a disclaimer on the website make you responsible?
b

[tazdevil]

The line from the armslist site

"Report illegal firearms activity to 1-800-ATF-GUNS or your local police department."

MIGHT make all buyers responsible. Not sure, someone with more legal xpertise needed, but I wouldn't buy unless I spoke to ATF first and verified I'm not in trouble for buying.

Why would a disclaimer on the website make you responsible?
b

Not sure, but when I read this initially, I kept thinking back to the buyer of stolen goods now in posession of stolen goods and said buyer may have never known the goods were stolen, but is still guilty of committing a crime. I could see that type of logic applied-"He/She bought the illegaly sold lower and is guilty of involvement in a illegal sale". Or I just need more tinfoil on my head.

[bstrawse]

I think you need more tinfoil
b

[hoel6466]

Didn't take long for those ads to come down.

[Slayer_MN1]

apparently the seller caught wind as his ad now is for "nothing" lol

[SparkyJeff]

As an unwitting buyer (unless one is a felon), I'd only be concerned about a 'clawback'.

What is a clawback? I'm not concerned, simply curious.

[45Badger]

As an unwitting buyer (unless one is a felon), I'd only be concerned about a 'clawback'.

What is a clawback? I'm not concerned, simply curious.

ill-gotten gains returned to victim, original owner, etc. In this case somebody is assuming/imagining that the private buyers of this specific private property might have to return it to somebody (bafte? Last ffl to touch it?) because they are assuming it was sold illegally.

Not to parse the law or the BATFE, but does anybody here know (not assume or think they know) specifically what constitutes dealing without a license? There are many here (and all around the country) who are active buyers, sellers, swappers, traders. Probably good info to have to stay on the right side of the line.

[Anokamnman]

Must be someone on the forum. Because now the ads have been taken down.

[rugersol]

Not to parse the law or the BATFE, but does anybody here know (not assume or think they know) specifically what constitutes dealing without a license? There are many here (and all around the country) who are active buyers, sellers, swappers, traders. Probably good info to have to stay on the right side of the line.

It was my understanding that's what's (more 'er less) the "gunshow loophole"?

To "close" the "gunshow loophole" would take away our rights to privately buy/sell/trade ... that's why we're against it!

I'm unaware as to what constitutes "dealing without a license" ... I suspect, it's whatever the ATF feels like is 'nuff to charge ya with it. I'd guess a dozen 'er more NIB lowers per year might be gettin' up there?!

I suspect either the manufacturer/distributor or the FFL is more on the hook, here?

My regular FFL charges $20/ea. If I bought in bulk, I could possibly make a few bucks ... more, if I sought a $10 FFL. Not nearly 'nuff to live on, though!

If this guy's makin' serious money, he's either got a manufacturer/distributor shipping directly to him, or he's got an FFL charging more like $10/dz!

We all know why someone might pay the same or more money to a private seller. Question is, why would the seller risk so much, to make so little money?

[yuppiejr]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html