Fringe benefits of permit to carry?

[mrp]

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)

Not so fast, citizen.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/12/1296.asp

Federal Appeals Court: Driving With Money is a Crime
Eighth Circuit Appeals Court ruling says police may seize cash from motorists even in the absence of any evidence that a crime has been committed.

US Court of Appeals, Eighth CircuitA federal appeals court ruled yesterday that if a motorist is carrying large sums of money, it is automatically subject to confiscation. In the case entitled, "United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit took that amount of cash away from Emiliano Gomez Gonzolez, a man with a "lack of significant criminal history" neither accused nor convicted of any crime.

[fuller malarkey]

[quote="XDM45"

After reading this entire thread.... my .002 worth:

1) +1 on both of the above. That really says it all. All pushing the limits of the law does is cause change in the law to the detriment of law abiding citizens. Not once does it work in our favor if someone acts like a jerk - especially within the confines of the law and with the explicit purpose of pushing the limits of it. The Man doesn't like that. The Man won't say "Oh look... he pushed the law so well, we'd better expand that law to give more room between what he does and the limits of the law." No, The Man does the opposite of that and says "hmmm they are pushing the limits so we better cut it back further or just make that illegal and be done with it."

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)
b) Going into a dangerous neighborhood at night (North Minneapolis for example)
c) Flipping off a Hell's Angel biker (and even worse if you're riding one of those rocket bikes)
d) Crossing out gang graffiti
e) Publicly advertising any of these above.
f) .....and many, many, many more.

Let's just say for example that there wasn't any problem at all, legally or otherwise, with someone walking down the street with an RPG, flame thrower, long gun, anything at all.... ok. Do you really NEED to? Again, just because you CAN does not mean you SHOULD. If I could carry anything at all, the LAST thing I'd want to carry is some big rifle or weapon that advertises I have it. Sure, if the SHTF, yeah, of course, who cares then if someone sees you carry a rifle, but in current society in the world of today in which we all hopefully live, I don't want to be seen, noticed, obvious, or anything else when it comes to me carrying. For me, (and everyone is different), but for ME, I want to carry unnoticed....and that's a pistol.

Ah. Black people should have stayed in the back of the bus? Meaning, the only way change has ever come about is by people demanding it.

I don't take risks like flipping the bird to Hell's Angels or anyone else for that matter, while carrying. Or when I'm not carrying. A cultural thing I guess. We had higher evolved methods of communications than giving another adult the finger in Appalachia I guess. It seems presumptuous to believe that because I open carry, I flip off people. You seem to imply all open carriers are provacitive.
I'm new to the area, and don't know a good neighborhood from a bad one. I do have a good sense of situational awareness. And some nicely engineered pieces of hardware for those times my assessment is off. I've found that by becoming proficient in the use of those engineered items, I've developed confidence, so I don't have to lie in my house in a huddled mass of fear, darting like a rat from point to point in a rat like struggle for survival. And all of this is possible without any outrageous displays of artillery, wearing a ghille while bearing an AK and belly crawling through Wal Mart. No. Just simply attaching to my belt, a holster that blends with the rest of my attire, filled with a piece of hardware that is unobtrusive, yet effective.

I know unsolicited advice is not appreciated much, but damn, if you are only responsible enough to carry a few bucks on yourself at a time, by all means. stick to that limit. And if the 'hood is so bad that's all you dare carry, maybe you should move?

No room for two opinions on the issue, each treated respectfully? What's the NRA's stance on open carry? The GOA?

How did the option to open carry ever clear the house and senate if they are so patently wrong?

[XDM45]

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)

Not so fast, citizen.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/12/1296.asp

Federal Appeals Court: Driving With Money is a Crime
Eighth Circuit Appeals Court ruling says police may seize cash from motorists even in the absence of any evidence that a crime has been committed.

US Court of Appeals, Eighth CircuitA federal appeals court ruled yesterday that if a motorist is carrying large sums of money, it is automatically subject to confiscation. In the case entitled, "United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit took that amount of cash away from Emiliano Gomez Gonzolez, a man with a "lack of significant criminal history" neither accused nor convicted of any crime.

Something like 95% of money will test positive for illegal drugs, now whether that's legally or morally right to take money based on that is another discussion.

My point is that just because you CAN do something legally doesn't mean that you SHOULD do it, that's all. It's my opinion, and we each have one.

We're each are entitled to our own opinion and just because my opinion may differ from another's opinion, neither opinion negates the other's nor is one's own opinion valid for anyone but themselves. So please, feel free to agree or disagree, whatever you may choose.

In my opinion, just because someone could legally carry that much money on them doesn't mean that it's a wise move to do so; let alone advertise it. Many things are like that though, not just with money; but again, that's my opinion. Other's opinions will vary, and maybe some people want to do something just because they can, or to push other people's buttons; I don't know what their reasoning is, but to each their own.

For example, one reason I don't openly carry is that I don't want the attention and I think that it would do more harm than good to me, my family and to the gun community at large. Yes, I can see that if everyone openly carried it MAY change things, or it may not. This is Minnesota, not Texas, Arizona, or Colorado; and Minnesotans are generally not very confrontational, tend to be reserved, etc. It's not a "gun thing", it's a "Minnesotan Cultural Thing". My other point being, is to pick and choose your battles. I just want to live my life; and as one person I know put it, "A boring life is a good life." (He meant "boring" as relating to guns, exposure, attention, etc.)

I'm sure we all think of various things and how they OUGHT to be, but that's now how it IS, unfortunately. How many of us are willing to walk into the local cop shop openly carrying? Maybe some people on here are or have, kudos to you man. I'm not willing to do that. Am I afraid? No, not at all. I just don't want the hassle. I live a drama-free, hassle-free life, and I like it that way. I want to keep it that way. Does that mean that I'd NEVER walk into a cop shop openly carrying? No...but I'd have to a very good reason to do so. I just don't see the benefit of doing it - even though I can legally do so.

I'm sure many people here think we ought to be able to openly carry and legally, we can..... but do most of us want to be "that guy"? Do we want to to stir the pot, push people's buttons, get the cops called on us because "he has a gun!!" in Wal-Mart, even though we're perfectly legal and justified in doing so? I don't see anyone in MN openly carrying, especially compared to other states. Heck, in Texas I swear the second you come out of the womb they put a gun in your hand and then at the moment of death they have to pray it out of it. That's TEXAS, NOT Minnesota. If someone wants to fight a cultural thing, feel free.

America in general is extreme and common sense goes right out the window when it comes to certain topics such as guns, sports, sex, abortion, religion, politics, marriage, etc.

Anyway, people will do as they will, as I will do what I do.

[XDM45]

deleted double posting

[XDM45]

Ah. Black people should have stayed in the back of the bus? Meaning, the only way change has ever come about is by people demanding it.

Yes, there were a lot of people on the front lines getting beaten up and down for civil rights, and there were those who tried to work the system from within as well. Is civil rights a good thing? Yes, of course it is and the change was needed. As I said in another post, pick and choose your battles. There are times when you might fight the good fight, then other times not.

I could go around preaching the evils of Microsoft and how FOSS is the better way to go for many reasons, but I don't. I run Linux on my servers and desktops, I just do what I do. If people are interested, cool. If not, cool. I don't feel the need to be in the fight to proselytize to the masses about the evils of proprietary software like rms and the FSF do. It's just not that important to me. Let people get viruses on their PC and keep having the same old issues year after year, version after version. If they approach me for help, cool. If not, cool too.

I don't take risks like flipping the bird to Hell's Angels or anyone else for that matter, while carrying. Or when I'm not carrying. A cultural thing I guess.

Same here.

It seems presumptuous to believe that because I open carry, I flip off people. You seem to imply all open carriers are provacitive.

I never said, nor implied that about you, me, or anyone else whether they carry or not. Go back and READ what I wrote. It was an example.

I'm new to the area, and don't know a good neighborhood from a bad one. I do have a good sense of situational awareness. And some nicely engineered pieces of hardware for those times my assessment is off. I've found that by becoming proficient in the use of those engineered items, I've developed confidence, so I don't have to lie in my house in a huddled mass of fear, darting like a rat from point to point in a rat like struggle for survival. And all of this is possible without any outrageous displays of artillery, wearing a ghille while bearing an AK and belly crawling through Wal Mart. No. Just simply attaching to my belt, a holster that blends with the rest of my attire, filled with a piece of hardware that is unobtrusive, yet effective.

Confidence in your abilities is and the tools you have to use is a very good thing, however, if you did not have them, would you lose that confidence? True confidence comes from within you, not anything you have. I also don't think that I or anyone else here is huddle in ther home, armed or not either.

I know unsolicited advice is not appreciated much, but damn, if you are only responsible enough to carry a few bucks on yourself at a time, by all means. stick to that limit.

I've had much more on me, believe me. I'm quite responsible. That's not the question or the concern, rather it is why carry such a large sum of cash if it's not needed? Another perspective is to look at it from the security principle of least privileges.... you don't let someone logon as root to run a command when adding that user to the sudoers file and limiting the commands they can run with the elevated privileges would suffice. In layman's terms: Overkill isn't needed. If I NEED $5,000 on me, I'll carry it. If I don't, I won't, but generally something that large goes into a cashier's check since it's safer than cash and I'm not doing business with Tony Montana.

And if the 'hood is so bad that's all you dare carry, maybe you should move?

I don't live in da 'hood, nor would I, but nowhere is 100% safe.

No room for two opinions on the issue, each treated respectfully? What's the NRA's stance on open carry? The GOA?

I respect all opinions, and the NRA and GOA, and the Pope are all entitled to theirs, but they are no more or less valid than mine.

How did the option to open carry ever clear the house and senate if they are so patently wrong?

They aren't wrong, but again, do you want to be "that guy" that the cops are called on because "he has a gun!!"

[fuller malarkey]

They aren't wrong, but again, do you want to be "that guy" that the cops are called on because "he has a gun!!"

No, I don't want to have the police called on me for practicing a legal activity. What constitutes being "that guy"? A biased description involving extreme examples of radical dissidents doing and saying provacitive things?

And I don't understand how there can be a "that guy" designation on a Gun Talk forum, unless the forum is anti-firearm, anti 2A based. An open carrier engaged in a lawful activity shouldn't be eaten by his own for "not conforming" to some unspoken code. Campaign to have the open carry removed from the carry permit instead of allowing a dangerous practice to continue. Attempting to shame people into compliance of a code of conduct that is unwritten and of an unknown source might not work too well.

[Grayskies]

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)

Not so fast, citizen.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/12/1296.asp

Federal Appeals Court: Driving With Money is a Crime
Eighth Circuit Appeals Court ruling says police may seize cash from motorists even in the absence of any evidence that a crime has been committed.

US Court of Appeals, Eighth CircuitA federal appeals court ruled yesterday that if a motorist is carrying large sums of money, it is automatically subject to confiscation. In the case entitled, "United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit took that amount of cash away from Emiliano Gomez Gonzolez, a man with a "lack of significant criminal history" neither accused nor convicted of any crime.

I believe that was because the person crossed a state boarder, there is a legal limit there. I doubt there is a limit for in state.

Edit: Oh i believe you can get a permit to carry large sums of cash across a state boarder.

[XDM45]

Attempting to shame people into compliance of a code of conduct that is unwritten and of an unknown source might not work too well.

It actually works very well and is done all the time. there are tons of unwritten "laws" unspoken, but in place within society.

Don't fart in public, don't blow your nose at the table, don't draw attention to yourself, don't cut in front of the line, don't stare at people, etc. Common sense, common courtesy, but unwritten, unspoken, yet followed by most people.

As for "that guy", I get what you're saying, I was just saying that (at least I) don't want to be the button pusher.

[Grayskies]

After reading this entire thread.... my .002 worth:

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)
b) Going into a dangerous neighborhood at night (North Minneapolis for example)

Hey, we live in North Minneapolis!!!

And we carry some money to places like the Ren Fest/state fair, most snack venders do not take Visa and the Atms can be empty or worse, a place criminals KNOW you will have money.

[XDM45]

After reading this entire thread.... my .002 worth:

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)
b) Going into a dangerous neighborhood at night (North Minneapolis for example)

Hey, we live in North Minneapolis!!!

And we carry some money to places like the Ren Fest/state fair, most snack venders do not take Visa and the Atms can be empty or worse, a place criminals KNOW you will have money.

Right, I get that, $200-$300 should be more than enough for one person I'd think, but that's just me.

[Grayskies]

After reading this entire thread.... my .002 worth:

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)
b) Going into a dangerous neighborhood at night (North Minneapolis for example)

Hey, we live in North Minneapolis!!!

And we carry some money to places like the Ren Fest/state fair, most snack venders do not take Visa and the Atms can be empty or worse, a place criminals KNOW you will have money.

Right, I get that, $200-$300 should be more than enough for one person I'd think, but that's just me.

Married, trying telling that to her!

[fuller malarkey]

Attempting to shame people into compliance of a code of conduct that is unwritten and of an unknown source might not work too well.

It actually works very well and is done all the time. there are tons of unwritten "laws" unspoken, but in place within society.

Don't fart in public, don't blow your nose at the table, don't draw attention to yourself, don't cut in front of the line, don't stare at people, etc. Common sense, common courtesy, but unwritten, unspoken, yet followed by most people.

As for "that guy", I get what you're saying, I was just saying that (at least I) don't want to be the button pusher.

BS. Manners are taught and / or acquired. A thinking parent doesn't instill them through shame.

[fuller malarkey]

As for "that guy", I get what you're saying, I was just saying that (at least I) don't want to be the button pusher.

I don't want to be a button pusher either. I want to go about my business without concern of assault, arrest, public humiliation, and possibly killed for engaging in an activity I am permitted to do.

[fuller malarkey]

After reading this entire thread.... my .002 worth:

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)
b) Going into a dangerous neighborhood at night (North Minneapolis for example)

Hey, we live in North Minneapolis!!!

And we carry some money to places like the Ren Fest/state fair, most snack venders do not take Visa and the Atms can be empty or worse, a place criminals KNOW you will have money.

Right, I get that, $200-$300 should be more than enough for one person I'd think, but that's just me.

The point is you don't have a point. What I have in my pocket is my business, and no bearing on the topic at hand.

[bstrawse]

2) Just because you *CAN* do something legally, doesn't mean you *SHOULD* do it.
Examples of perfectly legal things you can do, but shouldn't include, but aren't exclusively limited to:
a) Carrying a large sum of money (anything over a few hundred bucks)

Not so fast, citizen.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/12/1296.asp

Federal Appeals Court: Driving With Money is a Crime
Eighth Circuit Appeals Court ruling says police may seize cash from motorists even in the absence of any evidence that a crime has been committed.

US Court of Appeals, Eighth CircuitA federal appeals court ruled yesterday that if a motorist is carrying large sums of money, it is automatically subject to confiscation. In the case entitled, "United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit took that amount of cash away from Emiliano Gomez Gonzolez, a man with a "lack of significant criminal history" neither accused nor convicted of any crime.

I believe that was because the person crossed a state boarder, there is a legal limit there. I doubt there is a limit for in state.

Edit: Oh i believe you can get a permit to carry large sums of cash across a state boarder.

I've never heard of a limit involved in crossing a state "boarder".

Going across a country "boarder" without declaring - yes. Going from Wisconsin to Minnesota... that's news to me.