Missed With The Wrong Gal

[westhope]

IANAL, but I am sure, that if someone is uninvited in my home, I have the right to defend myself.

You may think you do, but not according to law and use deadly force.

[BemidjiDweller]

IANAL, but I am sure, that if someone is uninvited in my home, I have the right to defend myself.

You may think you do, but not according to law and use deadly force.

Then please cite the statute, educate me.

Edit: Keep in mind this statute.

609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.

The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.582 clearly defines the various degrees of burglary, all of which are felonies.

Subd. 4.Burglary in the fourth degree.
Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a misdemeanor other than to steal, or enters a building without consent and commits a misdemeanor other than to steal while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the fourth degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both.

So, how am I as a homeowner going to know if the person in my house at 3am is just there to steal? To me, his presence alone in my house is "reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death" and/or "the commission of a felony" in my place of abode. Like I said before, I am NOT a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, nor did I stay at a holiday inn last night.

[tman]

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.582 clearly defines the various degrees of burglary, all of which are felonies.

Subd. 4.Burglary in the fourth degree.
Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a misdemeanor other than to steal, or enters a building without consent and commits a misdemeanor other than to steal while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the fourth degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both.

So, how am I as a homeowner going to know if the person in my house at 3am is just there to steal? To me, his presence alone in my house is "reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death" and/or "the commission of a felony" in my place of abode. Like I said before, I am NOT a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, nor did I stay at a holiday inn last night.

By definition, 4th degree Burglary is NOT a felony. It's a Gross Misdemeanor. (UP TO a year in jail - A felony requires confinement of more than one year).

And,

reading the statutes will only get you part of the way there. There is case law which applies to them, where some dudes and dudettes in black robes have said that the law doesn't really mean what you think it means.

If someone enters your house without permission, they have committed a misdemeanor Trespass. Until they do something else criminal - like steal or fight).

If you shoot someone in your home, you'd best have a reasonable explanation as to why you were afraid of them... (and yes, "reasonable" is subjective).

[XDM45]

IANAL, but I am sure, that if someone is uninvited in my home, I have the right to defend myself.

You may think you do, but not according to law and use deadly force.

Exactly.

Remember, we don't have an "American JUSTICE System", we have an "American LEGAL System"....and what is Legal isn't always Just, and what is Just isn't always Legal.

One would HOPE that common sense applies with the law, but it doesn't.

[BemidjiDweller]

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.582 clearly defines the various degrees of burglary, all of which are felonies.

Subd. 4.Burglary in the fourth degree.
Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a misdemeanor other than to steal, or enters a building without consent and commits a misdemeanor other than to steal while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the fourth degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both.

So, how am I as a homeowner going to know if the person in my house at 3am is just there to steal? To me, his presence alone in my house is "reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death" and/or "the commission of a felony" in my place of abode. Like I said before, I am NOT a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, nor did I stay at a holiday inn last night.

By definition, 4th degree Burglary is NOT a felony. It's a Gross Misdemeanor. (UP TO a year in jail - A felony requires confinement of more than one year).

And,

reading the statutes will only get you part of the way there. There is case law which applies to them, where some dudes and dudettes in black robes have said that the law doesn't really mean what you think it means.

If someone enters your house without permission, they have committed a misdemeanor Trespass. Until they do something else criminal - like steal or fight).

If you shoot someone in your home, you'd best have a reasonable explanation as to why you were afraid of them... (and yes, "reasonable" is subjective).

Huh, I thought felonies were 1 year or more. I guess ya learn something new every day. Thank you tman, this is the kind of response from someone who is experienced that I was looking for. My false classification of that 4th degree burglary as a felony is why I thought the law would be on the side of the homeowner in that situation. But my final thought of my last post (not the holiday inn sentence) is still bugging me. How is a homeowner to know? To what extent should a homeowner let someone wander around their house?

Does that sound like a senario you have come across tman? I am asking sincerely and not in any negative nor condescending way. I am genuinely interested. Also, what is your take on the mother in the news article locking the door keeping the criminal inside?

I don't know what kind of a vibe I was giving off, but I'm not in the business of shooting people for no reason.

[falgore]

At what point does castle doctrine kick in? Isn't it reasonable to assume that any unwanted person in your home is there to commit a felony?

Unless they ask for Amy or Bob (no such person here) then turn around and run, I have to assume they're in my abode to rob, rape, pillage, maim or kill someone there. I would then be well within my rights to defend my family and myself.

Where exactly is the dividing line? Do I have to see a weapon or fist-a-cuffs or the carrying of jewelry or electronics? ...Paul...Tman...any lawyers...

Not a lawyer, but I know this much, castle doctrine does not exist in Minnesota. You have to prove bad guys where there to committ a violent felony on you/family before you can respond with deadly force.

IANAL, but I am sure, that if someone is uninvited in my home, I have the right to defend myself.

Especially if your home was locked That in itself show intent to me.

[bstrawse]

I wonder if locking the door to keep him from escaping will have any legal ramifications.

Still, good work ladys.

Why would it?

[tazdevil]

Ok, here's some confusion:

"If someone enters your house without permission, then its illegal trespass, gross misdemeanor."

What TYPE of entry are we talking about here? Walking in through a unlocked door? Or all types, including breaking a window to get in, breaking a lock, or even breaking down a door?

[jshuberg]

Subdivision 1.Burglary in the first degree.

Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a crime, or enters a building without consent and commits a crime while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 20 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $35,000, or both, if:

(a) the building is a dwelling and another person, not an accomplice, is present in it when the burglar enters or at any time while the burglar is in the building;

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.582

Subdivision 1.When authorized.

Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 2, reasonable force may be used upon or toward the person of another without the other's consent when the following circumstances exist or the actor reasonably believes them to exist:

(4) when used by any person in lawful possession of real or personal property, or by another assisting the person in lawful possession, in resisting a trespass upon or other unlawful interference with such property; or

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.06

The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065

Subdivision 1.Definition.

Arrest means taking a person into custody that the person may be held to answer for a public offense. "Arrest" includes actually restraining a person or taking into custody a person who submits.
Subd. 2.Who may arrest.
An arrest may be made:

(4) by a private person.

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=629.30

A private person may arrest another:
(1) for a public offense committed or attempted in the arresting person's presence;
(2) when the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in the arresting person's presence; or
(3) when a felony has in fact been committed, and the arresting person has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=629.37

A private person who arrests another for a public offense shall take the arrested person before a judge or to a peace officer without unnecessary delay. If a person arrested escapes, the person from whose custody the person has escaped may immediately pursue and retake the escapee, at any time and in any place in the state. For that purpose, the pursuer may break open any door or window of a dwelling house if the pursuer informs the escapee of the intent to arrest the escapee and the pursuer is refused admittance.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=629.39

The commission of a crime by an individual in a dwelling without consent while someone else is also present is a 1st degree burglary, which is a felony. Use of force, including deadly force, is justified under defense of dwelling when a felony is being committed. Restraining the criminal and preventing him from leaving is performing a citizens arrest. I'm not a lawyer, and there may be case law that I'm not ware of that speaks to this (please provide any references if you have any), but it seems to me that the women involved acted completely within the law.

This looks to be another textbook example of an armed citizen acting within the law to stop a criminal in action. Good for them!!

[PHATSPEED7x]

http://www.guns.com/mother-daughter-and ... 11017.html

Just saw this story on http://www.guns.com yesterday.

Good job ladies!

[billsnogo]

Great job ladies!

Unfortunately, it sounds like this guy will keep trying until he finds one that the owner does not keep such a cool head. (no real big loss really, just more of a mess for the ones who do it).

So..... let me see if I am getting this right.

If someone enters the house, but does not break in, shooting is not justifiable self defense.

If someone bust a window or door, and the homeowner shoots, it is justifiable self defense?

[BemidjiDweller]

So..... let me see if I am getting this right.

If someone enters the house, but does not break in, shooting is not justifiable self defense.

If someone bust a window or door, and the homeowner shoots, it is justifiable self defense?

609.582 BURGLARY.
Subdivision 1.Burglary in the first degree. Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a crime, or enters a building without consent and commits a crime while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 20 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $35,000, or both, if:
(a) the building is a dwelling and another person, not an accomplice, is present in it when the burglar enters or at any time while the burglar is in the building;
(b) the burglar possesses, when entering or at any time while in the building, any of the following: a dangerous weapon, any article used or fashioned in a manner to lead the victim to reasonably believe it to be a dangerous weapon, or an explosive; or
(c) the burglar assaults a person within the building or on the building's appurtenant property.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.582

Doesn't matter how they enter the house. If they are there without consent and the building is occupied, it is a felony.

609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065

Seems clear cut to me, but as others have pointed out. Case law has a lot to do with it too.