Gun Free School Zones....

[Gun Mouse]

I hate to add to this mess, but I feel the need to throw in my two cents since I work in the very trenches you speak of. I teach high school in a suburban district and I will tell you as a gun owner/collector/carry permit holder you don't want want to add handguns to the mix by letting teachers carry on the job. If you do support this idea you have A. a whole lot of faith in your fellow man and B. selective memory of your high school experience. Many teachers can't keep track of their keys or ID badges and many are in no physical shape to take any kind of evasive action. For crying out loud, when fights break out we're told not to intervene (for the record, I do anyway but have been injured) and many teachers will just walk away. As for the students, do you remember your friends and classmates in high school? If I had a gun on my hip, a quarter of my students would be trying to figure out how to steal it from me, a quarter would be trying to figure out how to pull some kind of prank and plug the barrel or something, a quarter wouldn't want to talk about anything other than guns and we'd get nothing done, and the other quarter would refuse to come to class because they're scared of me.

The best move we ever made was to hire retired police officers as security. They love working with the kids and the kids love talking to them and hearing their stories. They know how to handle the tough situations and can identify potential problems and deal with them. It was a win win for both parties.

The problem is a mental health issue. We live in a society that values innocence until proven guilty...and we hesitate to label someone nuts until they do something to prove it. I had a kid just last week look me in the eye and tell me he was going to shoot me. Suffice to say, he has protection from being removed from school because an expert determined at some point that he has a disability and doesn't really understand what he says. So, they have a quick meeting of the minds and determine he didn't mean it and he's back in class an hour later with a big poo eating grin on his face.

I don't think we need guns in schools to protect the students and staff. We need a system that allows the removal and isolation of those who would do harm to schools or any public place. We know who they are. We just spend way too much time and energy trying to protect them instead of us.

Just saying...

congrats and well said sir.

[TTS]

This is a great article addressing the issue, I don't agree with all his point but overall he is correct.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/17/there-s-little-we-can-do-to-prevent-another-massacre.html

Since we can't understand it, we can't change it. And since we can't change it, our best hope is to box it in. Gun control opponents are angry that liberals immediately started talking about gun control, but this seems like a natural instinct to me. It's not the best way to get good policy, mind you; hard cases make bad laws, and rules passed in the wake of tragedies tend to be over-specific, and under-careful about unintended consequences. But it's not somehow indelicate to want to talk about this now; if thirty children had been killed in a landslide, I hope that we'd be talking about whether there might be some way to keep that from happening in the future.

On the other hand, I also hope that we'd be willing to accept the answer that maybe, there isn't anything. Not every problem has a policy solution. We should always be mindful of Johnson's famous epigram:

How small, of all that human hearts endure

That part which laws or kings can cause or cure!

In this case, there probably is a policy which could stop mass shootings. But we are not going to implement that policy. And since nothing else is going to work, we are not going to pass a law that will stop these sorts of mass shootings. We may pass a law, mind you. But whatever we do pass, we will have more of these evil happenings ahead of us.

[sgruenhagen44]

I hate to add to this mess, but I feel the need to throw in my two cents since I work in the very trenches you speak of. I teach high school in a suburban district and I will tell you as a gun owner/collector/carry permit holder you don't want want to add handguns to the mix by letting teachers carry on the job. If you do support this idea you have A. a whole lot of faith in your fellow man and B. selective memory of your high school experience. Many teachers can't keep track of their keys or ID badges and many are in no physical shape to take any kind of evasive action. For crying out loud, when fights break out we're told not to intervene (for the record, I do anyway but have been injured) and many teachers will just walk away. As for the students, do you remember your friends and classmates in high school? If I had a gun on my hip, a quarter of my students would be trying to figure out how to steal it from me, a quarter would be trying to figure out how to pull some kind of prank and plug the barrel or something, a quarter wouldn't want to talk about anything other than guns and we'd get nothing done, and the other quarter would refuse to come to class because they're scared of me.

The best move we ever made was to hire retired police officers as security. They love working with the kids and the kids love talking to them and hearing their stories. They know how to handle the tough situations and can identify potential problems and deal with them. It was a win win for both parties.

The problem is a mental health issue. We live in a society that values innocence until proven guilty...and we hesitate to label someone nuts until they do something to prove it. I had a kid just last week look me in the eye and tell me he was going to shoot me. Suffice to say, he has protection from being removed from school because an expert determined at some point that he has a disability and doesn't really understand what he says. So, they have a quick meeting of the minds and determine he didn't mean it and he's back in class an hour later with a big poo eating grin on his face.

I don't think we need guns in schools to protect the students and staff. We need a system that allows the removal and isolation of those who would do harm to schools or any public place. We know who they are. We just spend way too much time and energy trying to protect them instead of us.

Just saying...

[trex021]

I hate to add to this mess, but I feel the need to throw in my two cents since I work in the very trenches you speak of. I teach high school in a suburban district and I will tell you as a gun owner/collector/carry permit holder you don't want want to add handguns to the mix by letting teachers carry on the job. If you do support this idea you have A. a whole lot of faith in your fellow man and B. selective memory of your high school experience. Many teachers can't keep track of their keys or ID badges and many are in no physical shape to take any kind of evasive action. For crying out loud, when fights break out we're told not to intervene (for the record, I do anyway but have been injured) and many teachers will just walk away. As for the students, do you remember your friends and classmates in high school? If I had a gun on my hip, a quarter of my students would be trying to figure out how to steal it from me, a quarter would be trying to figure out how to pull some kind of prank and plug the barrel or something, a quarter wouldn't want to talk about anything other than guns and we'd get nothing done, and the other quarter would refuse to come to class because they're scared of me.

The best move we ever made was to hire retired police officers as security. They love working with the kids and the kids love talking to them and hearing their stories. They know how to handle the tough situations and can identify potential problems and deal with them. It was a win win for both parties.

The problem is a mental health issue. We live in a society that values innocence until proven guilty...and we hesitate to label someone nuts until they do something to prove it. I had a kid just last week look me in the eye and tell me he was going to shoot me. Suffice to say, he has protection from being removed from school because an expert determined at some point that he has a disability and doesn't really understand what he says. So, they have a quick meeting of the minds and determine he didn't mean it and he's back in class an hour later with a big poo eating grin on his face.

I don't think we need guns in schools to protect the students and staff. We need a system that allows the removal and isolation of those who would do harm to schools or any public place. We know who they are. We just spend way too much time and energy trying to protect them instead of us.

Just saying...

This never happens... someone changed a strongly held opinion of mine. A guy on the internet no less. Well said.

[XDM45]

I had a kid just last week look me in the eye and tell me he was going to shoot me. Suffice to say, he has protection from being removed from school because an expert determined at some point that he has a disability and doesn't really understand what he says. So, they have a quick meeting of the minds and determine he didn't mean it and he's back in class an hour later with a big poo eating grin on his face.

...and that right there is why YOU need to carry.

I also agree that it's a mental health issue, but we (as a society and as individuals) don't always know who the wackos are. Likewise, proper action isn't always taken, such as in the case of the Colorado shooting where mental health staff knew James Holmes was a nutjob, yet didn't do anything to try and prevent him or stop him from then-future harm to himself or others. I can't say what they did or didn't do, but I can assume from the results whatever they did/din't do was ineffective. You have more faith in humans than I do since I don't really trust or expect anyone else to take responsibility for my life other than myself.

For the most part, I agree with everything you've said, but if teachers can't remember their own keys, then perhaps they shouldn't be teaching; and in such a case, no, they shouldn't be carrying guns then either. For the teachers like yourself who are smart enough and responsible enough to carry, perhaps it's time to find a new line of work that has less health risk to yourself.

[grousemaster]

This is not the time or place to be bringing this up.

So are you off telling the other side that now is not the time to call for further gun control?

lol, yea right.

[grousemaster]

Where are the operators on this forum that told us we are paranoid for thinking these dems will go after our guns? Come clean now or I'll hunt down your posts and quote you here....

[Heffay]

Where are the operators on this forum that told us we are paranoid for thinking these dems will go after our guns? Come clean now or I'll hunt down your posts and quote you here....

Right. Still no chance of AWB passing. And less than zero chance that they'll knock on our doors.

This isn't the first time she's put out the AWB. People just need to shut up for a while and let the grieving process run its course.

[Dante]

A good first step in trying to find viable solutions to helping people with mental health issues would be to stop referring to them as "wackos".

Just sayin.

[XDM45]

A good first step in trying to find viable solutions to helping people with mental health issues would be to stop referring to them as "wackos".

Just sayin.

Ok, we'll go the PC route....."sanity challenged".

[Heffay]

A good first step in trying to find viable solutions to helping people with mental health issues would be to stop referring to them as "wackos".

Just sayin.

Ok, we'll go the PC route....."sanity challenged".

Yeah, keep making jokes about it. Let's tell some of those guys suffering from PTSD how it's all in their head, rub some sand in it and quit being such pussies.

[Gun Mouse]

My question is... how do you determine who qualifies as mental illness? Who judges it? is it the gun dealer who going to selling the gun to the mental ill guy that passed his carry permit? There so many different levels of mental illness. I hear what your saying. But I'm also hearing you say stop the mental illness...But how? Because anybody..anybody can have a total break down get,find a gun and go totally wacky. A bad divorce, Postman back in the day. a man that loses his job. A child dies or a wife raped or worse your child,. How do you stop them? They were fine right up to the part of whatever went bad in their life. I don't think we can label anyone. This can happen to anybody. Its called a blackout. Doesn't make it right but it happens. If they should take our guns away... or should I say TRY!! That's not going to fix the problem either. Then I hear.. that's why we have to defend ourselves everyone should carry. But doesn't that put a weapon in the guys hand that had that blackout because of the reasons above. I'm like everyone else here and I don't know the answer. Like everyone here I also say leave my guns alone. I want my 2nd A rights..Leave it alone. There will always be some kind of accuse to take our guns (ALWAYS). Its what they are after. In my opinion they really cant, you will always have your guns you know why...Not one of us will ever give up our rights and I'm pretty sure your not going to voluntarily give it up. The only thing that makes sense to me is we will have to beef up security just like we did in our airports, but this time in our schools and who knows were next. Important thing is the security will be there. Its very sad that we have to do that. Just a thought.

[Heffay]

Because anybody..anybody can have a total break down get,find a gun and go totally wacky. A bad divorce, Postman back in the day. a man that loses his job. A child dies or a wife raped or worse your child

None of those are cases of mental illness. In fact, all of those cases make an argument for a waiting period. Be careful about how you construct your arguments, or you might be doing the other side a favor.

[Gun Mouse]

Because anybody..anybody can have a total break down get,find a gun and go totally wacky. A bad divorce, Postman back in the day. a man that loses his job. A child dies or a wife raped or worse your child

None of those are cases of mental illness. In fact, all of those cases make an argument for a waiting period. Be careful about how you construct your arguments, or you might be doing the other side a favor.

Absolutely.. those are cases of mental illness. Check your prisons. a lot are in there for that reason alone and not only that. They then are now treated as a mental illness. Waiting periods have been around for a long time and look how well that has worked for them. only speaking for myself I can do a waiting period I don't have a problem with it. just don't take our rights away and make sure after that waiting period I still get my gun and my rights. I think that's what everyone wants right?

[Dante]

A good first step in trying to find viable solutions to helping people with mental health issues would be to stop referring to them as "wackos".

Just sayin.

Ok, we'll go the PC route....."sanity challenged".

It has nothing to do with Political Correctness and everything to do with maturity.