Gun Registaion ?

[MNGunGuy]

Also, do all dealers secure their 4473s in general? I plan to secure those like money or guns are since they have to be retained for 20 years and have personal data on them. I'm even considering a separate safe for just records to ensure they are not compromised.

I don't trust that they'd use the same caution I do. I also can't tell you how many SSNs I've heard dealers say over the phone while I've been browsing. For that reason alone I never put my SSN on the 4473's.

[tman]

I thought if someone purchases more than one handgun in a seven-day period, gun shop owners are required to notify local police agencies.

It's late, and I'm not going to look up the statute, but this is essentially correct.

[XDM45]

I thought if someone purchases more than one handgun in a seven-day period, gun shop owners are required to notify local police agencies.

It's late, and I'm not going to look up the statute, but this is essentially correct.

So when I bought 2 guns at once, Bill's informed the Shakopee police? Nice.

[xd ED]

ATF Fact Sheet-MULTIPLE SALES REPORTING

MULTIPLE SALES REPORTING
In August 2011, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) initiated the Multiple Sales Reporting (MSR) requirement for certain rifles. MSR requires federal firearms licensees (FFL), specifically dealers and pawnbrokers, in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas to submit reports of multiple sales or other dispositions to an unlicensed individual of two or more rifles within five consecutive business days having the following characteristics: (1) semiautomatic; (2) a caliber greater than .22 (including .223/5.56 mm); and (3) the ability to accept detachable magazines. The National Tracing Center advised FFLs in the four border states that the program was being implemented to assist in investigating and combating the illegal movement of firearms along and across the Southwest border.

The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to report multiple sales of handguns to the same purchaser [18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(3)]. The sale of two or more handguns must be reported if they occur at the same time, or within five business days of each other. The report must be filed with ATF no later than the close of business on the day the multiple sales or other disposition took place and includes information that identifies the purchaser and the firearms purchased. By law, a copy of this handgun multiple sale report must be provided to designated state or local law enforcement agencies. These reports provide ATF with potential intelligence and almost real-time investigative leads that can indicate illegal firearms trafficking. ATF began requiring the FFLs to report the multiple transactions in 1975. The federal statute that codified the multiple sales of handguns reporting requirement went into effect in 1986.......

[darnzen]

The 4473's stay with the gun shop. The customer information doesn't get sent anywhere except for the NICS system. There is NO information about the gun except the type (long gun, hand gun, or other) that gets sent the the NICS. Interestingly the NICS is required by law to delete all evidence of the transaction within 24 hrs of 'resolution' (proceed/denied). That is why if you get repeated delays you can fill out some paperwork (VAF) which gives them permission to store data on you and they give you a unique ID number.

For multiple handgun sales (more than one within 5 days), the customer info along with information on the firearms (make, model, serial number) get's sent to the chief LEO in your jurisdiction. Might be the chief of police in a city, or a county sheriff if you live outside city limits. This info also gets faxed (and then mailed) to the Department of Justice and (I assume) is entered into the ATF's National Firarms Tracing center database. http://www.atf.gov/publications/factshe ... enter.html

Many border states also require a multiple long gun sale to be reported in the same manner.

I asked my ATF contact what the police do with the multi-handgun sales forms and she said "They probably throw them out because they don't know what to do with them. It's supposed to help solve local crimes but I've never heard of that happening. It doesn't matter what they do with it, but it's the law so you have to mail them the forms."

If the ATF wants to look at the 4473's as part of a compliance audit, they can do that at any time. If they are looking for information about a particular person/gun, I believe they need a warrant just like anyone else.

[Evad]

The 4473's stay with the gun shop. The customer information doesn't get sent anywhere except for the NICS system. There is NO information about the gun except the type (long gun, hand gun, or other) that gets sent the the NICS. Interestingly the NICS is required by law to delete all evidence of the transaction within 24 hrs of 'resolution' (proceed/denied). That is why if you get repeated delays you can fill out some paperwork (VAF) which gives them permission to store data on you and they give you a unique ID number.

For multiple handgun sales (more than one within 5 days), the customer info along with information on the firearms (make, model, serial number) get's sent to the chief LEO in your jurisdiction. Might be the chief of police in a city, or a county sheriff if you live outside city limits. This info also gets faxed (and then mailed) to the Department of Justice and (I assume) is entered into the ATF's National Firarms Tracing center database. http://www.atf.gov/publications/factshe ... enter.html

Many border states also require a multiple long gun sale to be reported in the same manner.

I asked my ATF contact what the police do with the multi-handgun sales forms and she said "They probably throw them out because they don't know what to do with them. It's supposed to help solve local crimes but I've never heard of that happening. It doesn't matter what they do with it, but it's the law so you have to mail them the forms."

If the ATF wants to look at the 4473's as part of a compliance audit, they can do that at any time. If they are looking for information about a particular person/gun, I believe they need a warrant just like anyone else.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I personally think it might be worth it to have that 5 day buffer, simply to minimize paperwork.

[george]

If the ATF wants to look at the 4473's as part of a compliance audit, they can do that at any time. If they are looking for information about a particular person/gun, I believe they need a warrant just like anyone else.

Not relay, I believe you waive that when you get your FFL unless it is going to directly incriminate you or your business and you don't want your FFL anymore.
What happened to us onetime was the ATF made contact about a Mod. & S/N firearm, Contact XXX Sheriff Dept. when the information is in hand.

I could be wrong, maybe FFL's can say no or get a warrant to the ATF (once) but I have never heard of it.

edit to add- this turned out to be stolen firearms but to this day the owner has not had any returned.

[xd ED]

Many years ago I looked into becoming an FFL. As I live in St Paul, along with zoning issues, I quickly disabused myself of that notion. Unrelated to my decision to not proceed was as I recall, a stipulation of the FFL, that you are subject to search by ay any LE organization during your posted hours of operation.