Gun Stop Mtka- TERRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE!

[meddin]

...Value is entirely arbitrary, random, and relative. Its power rests solely in the eye of the beholder/buyer....

...I guess this is a long (and rambling - sorry) way of saying that there is no right or wrong way of looking at this or any business. It's up to the consumer to choose. It's up to the business to "win" that choice. Small businesses that thrive in the shadow of giant businesses do so by offering something (innovation, service, reliability, friendliness,whatever) that outweighs the cost/price/scale advantages enjoyed by the big guys. Don't whine- kick their butts!

Well said! While I like to support small/local business, they have to earn my dollars. Either through service, price, shopping experience, convenience, etc. Also, almost all large retail corporations started as small businesses as well (Walmart, Best Buy, whatever). At what point do they get 'too big' to patronize? Is Fleet Farm, a family owned business of 30+ stores part of problem? I hope not, I love that place.

[srtolly]

I've never shopped at the stores mentioned. I shop at Ahlmans and Cabelas in Owatonna. I will admit the first several times I was in Ahlmans I was very put off by rude service and know-it-alls behind the counter and took my business elsewhere. I went back about a year ago and was looking at the cases and was asked politely if I wanted to see anything. They were busy and I was acknowledged which went a long way. I have bought several guns from them this year and most of my reloading supplies. I am always greeted when I come in, even buy the guys that don't know me, Randy greets me by name which doesn't happen often.

Cabelas is a different story, I've bought some guns from them too when the deal was too good to pass on. Service is very mediocre and I usually will pay a little more at Ahlmans for the same thing to keep a local business going in my own way.

I've worked retail in a small computer store where we couldn't compete with Best Buy and Walmart's prices. Our customer service had to be outstanding. We had a lot of good business and people came for the service.

In a small business everything is on the line. I've read all 8 pages on the post, a public forum for the gun community. I don't recall what good was said, only the bad. When I get to those areas I won't be stopping in at Gunstop or Frontiersman.

[45Badger]

. When I get to those areas I won't be stopping in at Gunstop or Frontiersman.

Then you will be missing the two best shops (by a wide margin) in the area.

[xd ED]

This is a case where I should say nothing; but can’t help it’ The price match thing.
We used to be a nation of small businesses; ma and pop stores. Our retail community had personality, character. You could build a relationship with a business and thus the greater community. Enter the corporate world. Massive advertising and huge Public/private partnerships that have flat out bought our political system. The consumer gets tricked into thinking they are getting convenience and price and you do get price until every family owned restaurant, hardware store, gas station, movie theater is ground to dust. Then you get one choice; to give your money to the billion dollar maga store. Each uniform; each staffed by under paid drones. Chain, after chain where the owner is someone you will never see, never meet, never look in the eye.
Your price shopping didn’t save you $40 – it allowed you to break even while fed a gluten a morsel and denied a child a meal.
Savvy shopping indeed
The idea of these massive stores would be better prices, supplies, selection, employment for communities. Take a look around folks – Hows that working out for us? I still remember the family that owned the one pump gas station by my house and now every time I fill up as an SA I choke back a tear… ala Fred Eaglesmith – the “White Rose” is just a memory now.
I get a buck is a buck and people should shop around – but damn – factor into the price the cost of the world you will help build.
Sorry for the lecture; but we have forgotten so much about what made us great and now wonder why we even have to worry about what “they” are going to do to us? We forget they didn’t do a damn thing we didn’t let them do.
OK – flame away

One of my favorite examples on this topic is a nearby homers depot- a place I try hard to avoid, if for no other reason as poor overall value.
In my area there is a Mom & Pop hardware store a few blocks from hd. By being a customer service oriented business, the hardware store thrives.
In fact business has improved with hd being down the road. Folks soon realize that saving $2-5 on a $50 purchase, at the cost of their time on a busy Saturday is often not worth it. It's quicker to run into the hardware store. They then discover true customer service in the form of a competent retail staff at the hardware store.
Not only is bigger not always better- bigger is often flat-ass wrong when they coerce the legislative process to their benefit.

[Holland&Holland]

when they coerce the legislative process to their benefit.

?????

[srtolly]

This is a case where I should say nothing; but can’t help it’ The price match thing.
We used to be a nation of small businesses; ma and pop stores. Our retail community had personality, character. You could build a relationship with a business and thus the greater community. Enter the corporate world. Massive advertising and huge Public/private partnerships that have flat out bought our political system. The consumer gets tricked into thinking they are getting convenience and price and you do get price until every family owned restaurant, hardware store, gas station, movie theater is ground to dust. Then you get one choice; to give your money to the billion dollar maga store. Each uniform; each staffed by under paid drones. Chain, after chain where the owner is someone you will never see, never meet, never look in the eye.
Your price shopping didn’t save you $40 – it allowed you to break even while fed a gluten a morsel and denied a child a meal.
Savvy shopping indeed
The idea of these massive stores would be better prices, supplies, selection, employment for communities. Take a look around folks – Hows that working out for us? I still remember the family that owned the one pump gas station by my house and now every time I fill up as an SA I choke back a tear… ala Fred Eaglesmith – the “White Rose” is just a memory now.
I get a buck is a buck and people should shop around – but damn – factor into the price the cost of the world you will help build.
Sorry for the lecture; but we have forgotten so much about what made us great and now wonder why we even have to worry about what “they” are going to do to us? We forget they didn’t do a damn thing we didn’t let them do.
OK – flame away

One of my favorite examples on this topic is a nearby homers depot- a place I try hard to avoid, if for no other reason as poor overall value.
In my area there is a Mom & Pop hardware store a few blocks from hd. By being a customer service oriented business, the hardware store thrives.
In fact business has improved with hd being down the road. Folks soon realize that saving $2-5 on a $50 purchase, at the cost of their time on a busy Saturday is often not worth it. It's quicker to run into the hardware store. They then discover true customer service in the form of a competent retail staff at the hardware store.
Not only is bigger not always better- bigger is often flat-ass wrong when they coerce the legislative process to their benefit.

I do the same. I go to the local hardware store and am greeted and helped and usually out in 15 minutes. I only go to Lowes for stuff I don't need help with like lumber or drywall.

[Glenn_S]

Your price shopping didn’t save you $40 – it allowed you to break even while fed a gluten a morsel and denied a child a meal.
Savvy shopping indeed

If you think that it fed a gluton and deprived a child a meal, you are full of ****. I simply passed along something that Gander did to keep me as a customer and not have the sale go down the road. THAT is good customer service.

All of you guys that hate Gander, Fleet and the big boys are apparently blind to the fact that are our allies in the next gun grab, as they have the most to lose. These companies pay big money to the lobbyists to maintain their, and your, ability to buy, sell and trade the arms that you do.

Well, Mike...your right, as a representative of a new store, you probably shouldn't have said anything. Your quote above will now sway my thoughts on Arnzen as a whole. Arnzen didn't have what I was looking for, so I went elsewhere. No big deal at the time, but repeat business is the lifeblood of a small business. Dumb-ass remarks like that make people think twice about patronizing your store.

I spend my money as I see fit, and believe me, if anyone asks me about Arnzen, I will be sure to quote you and do everything I can to steer people away. Ever heard the phrase that customer service is number one? Well you apparently don't know that that translates to a medium such as the web, too.

I fully expect to get banned for this, and I'm sure that Arnzen will have something to do with it. While nice, it is a business that may or may not be arond a year from now. With such great representation on the web from Mike, I won't ever be setting foot in your store again, much less think about buying anything. I would rather pay more across the highway. I'm sure you don't care, well neither do I. Remember, 6 firearms since summer with more purchases on the way. Just not from Arnzen. Good job.

[xd ED]

As something of an aside to the topic. I may have just had my last visit at a gander mnt. I stopped by the Woodbury store, just 'cause I was in the area.
After 5 min of squinting at the glossy, and reflective tags on the long guns 8' away, I wandered over to the handgun cases. There were numerous people engaged with the sales staff looking at various pieces.
The party next to me- a 20-something man and woman- asked to look at something in the display case. The salesman picked up the gun, handed it to her( I suspect she'd never held a gun before) without checking/ clearing it, and the woman, with her finger inside the trigger guard, proceeded to sweep her companion, the clerk, and the other dozen people at the counter. She casually pointed it at her companion's stomach while the clerk reached over and popped the mag release for her. The dork behind the counter said, nor did anything to suggest concern for her handling of the gun. If fact his total lack of reaction or response told me he didn't see an issue with such unsafe behavior.

[darnzen]

Your price shopping didn’t save you $40 – it allowed you to break even while fed a gluten a morsel and denied a child a meal.
Savvy shopping indeed

If you think that it fed a gluton and deprived a child a meal, you are full of ****. I simply passed along something that Gander did to keep me as a customer and not have the sale go down the road. THAT is good customer service.

All of you guys that hate Gander, Fleet and the big boys are apparently blind to the fact that are our allies in the next gun grab, as they have the most to lose. These companies pay big money to the lobbyists to maintain their, and your, ability to buy, sell and trade the arms that you do.

Well, Mike...your right, as a representative of a new store, you probably shouldn't have said anything. Your quote above will now sway my thoughts on Arnzen as a whole. Arnzen didn't have what I was looking for, so I went elsewhere. No big deal at the time, but repeat business is the lifeblood of a small business. Dumb-ass remarks like that make people think twice about patronizing your store.

I spend my money as I see fit, and believe me, if anyone asks me about Arnzen, I will be sure to quote you and do everything I can to steer people away. Ever heard the phrase that customer service is number one? Well you apparently don't know that that translates to a medium such as the web, too.

I fully expect to get banned for this, and I'm sure that Arnzen will have something to do with it. While nice, it is a business that may or may not be arond a year from now. With such great representation on the web from Mike, I won't ever be setting foot in your store again, much less think about buying anything. I would rather pay more across the highway. I'm sure you don't care, well neither do I. Remember, 6 firearms since summer with more purchases on the way. Just not from Arnzen. Good job.

Mike is an employee of Arnzen Arms, not the voice. He loves guns, and he loves freedom, and like most people has an opinion. Sharing an opinion on an internet message board is not the same as setting policy or direction for a business.

For the record, Arnzen Arms is in competition with Gander, Fleet Farm, Gun Stop, Frontiersman, etc. We compete on price, service, and selection; like all retail business. I do not ask or expect people to spend money at Arnzen Arms because I am a small business or a local store. I want to earn the business for being the best place to buy guns. I can't always have the lowest price, my overhead is a lot higher than Gun Stop or Frontiersman, given the location. I can't always have the best service, since I can only afford a small staff. I can't always have the best selection because I don't have millions of dollars to spend on inventory. What I can do is offer an alternative place to shop. Sometimes we'll have something you are looking for. Sometimes you'll be treated better (hopefully often). Sometimes you'll find a deal.

I'm trying to create a gun store that I myself would like to shop at. Will it be hard? Yes. Do I want charity? No.

If you find what you want at a better price somewhere else then you should pick it up. Gander Mountain is a big chain store. With their buying power, you should be able to walk in there and get the lowest prices around (like WalMart). It is surprising to me that they charge what they do. Set all prices higher than MSRP and then agree to price match? Why not have reasonable prices and force places like my store to price match? Due to their proximity, my business will benefit because I can compete with them on service and price. Selection is a different story, but I can do my best.

As far as used guns, we really are trying, but almost every time someone trades in a gun, we put it on the shelf and it is gone the next day.

[mikereilly]

I would never - EVER want to see someone banned for giving their opinion

[ktech]

Your price shopping didn’t save you $40 – it allowed you to break even while fed a gluten a morsel and denied a child a meal.
Savvy shopping indeed

If you think that it fed a gluton and deprived a child a meal, you are full of ****. I simply passed along something that Gander did to keep me as a customer and not have the sale go down the road. THAT is good customer service.

All of you guys that hate Gander, Fleet and the big boys are apparently blind to the fact that are our allies in the next gun grab, as they have the most to lose. These companies pay big money to the lobbyists to maintain their, and your, ability to buy, sell and trade the arms that you do.

Well, Mike...your right, as a representative of a new store, you probably shouldn't have said anything. Your quote above will now sway my thoughts on Arnzen as a whole. Arnzen didn't have what I was looking for, so I went elsewhere. No big deal at the time, but repeat business is the lifeblood of a small business. Dumb-ass remarks like that make people think twice about patronizing your store.

I spend my money as I see fit, and believe me, if anyone asks me about Arnzen, I will be sure to quote you and do everything I can to steer people away. Ever heard the phrase that customer service is number one? Well you apparently don't know that that translates to a medium such as the web, too.

I fully expect to get banned for this, and I'm sure that Arnzen will have something to do with it. While nice, it is a business that may or may not be arond a year from now. With such great representation on the web from Mike, I won't ever be setting foot in your store again, much less think about buying anything. I would rather pay more across the highway. I'm sure you don't care, well neither do I. Remember, 6 firearms since summer with more purchases on the way. Just not from Arnzen. Good job.

I think that's a bit of an overreaction to Mike's statements. I've met the guy in person and he struck me as an overall good guy, and Arnzen is clearly working on being a customer service oriented gun shop, and they seem to be really gearing towards new shooters... that much is evident after speaking with the employees. That being said, I probably won't go there as much as I might have if I were a new shooter... but I don't pick one gun shop to go to for everything. For example, I plan to buy reloading supplies at Gunstop because I know they have that sort of expertise - if I find a nice price at Gander I might go there... same goes for Arnzen or any other store. I tend to agree with 45Badger with regard to patronizing small stores - and I don't think you should be banned, but I think you should think a bit more before making remarks like the above.

[45Badger]

Free commentary and a couple insights from the cheap seats (meaning I didn't lay out a lifetime's savings to realize my dream of owning a gun shop), sent with love and backed by a couple decades of sales and marketing-

What I can do is offer an alternative place to shop. Sometimes we'll have something you are looking for. Sometimes you'll be treated better (hopefully often). Sometimes you'll find a deal.

This is not a strategy or sustainable value proposition. Being the "non-Gander" or "non-Frontiersman" is a VERY small market. The only (positive) differentiation I see in AA vs. the tradition shops is your nice location and store. Compared to the big stores, you win on employee competence (mostly Mike).

I'm trying to create a gun store that I myself would like to shop at.

Again, unless there are lot more "late middle aged white guys who like really clean gun stores" than I'm aware of, it's way too small a target market/demographic to support a sustainable business. There may be enough semi-affluent, clueless wealthy soccer moms and dads in Eden Prairie who need a lot of help. Maybe.

As far as used guns, we really are trying, but almost every time someone trades in a gun, we put it on the shelf and it is gone the next day.

Go ask Larry at GunStop how he does it. He has turned over a lot of his initial inventory (personal collection) and built more used inventory at good values than any two other shops I have been in. In less than 2 months! Or go buy estates, send a buyer to gun shows and other stores to buy undervalued pieces that you can turn a buck on. And then put them in one section or put pink tags on them so I don't have to look at cases full of guns look for a1/4-3/8" "USED Gun" note on the label that's lost in a sea of white tags on black plastic.

I think everyone here wishes you good luck in the business. It's great to have a place to swing by on a Costco, Home Depot, EP Mall trip. It would be even greater to have a place to buy more (mostly used) guns. I promise that will be my last rant on the used gun subject. Word.

[Synergy]

I read this entire thread and would just like to add my thoughts, this is just the way I see it.

Whether your a big box store or a small mom and pop operation IF you want return customers and value every one of them then its your job to make them feel welcome and not just another annoying customer. All that is needed to do that is a simple SINCERE welcome greeting of some kind, you make up the words. If this isn't done within the first minute or so I take it as I'm being ignored and not wanted in the store and am looked at like I'm another pain in the ass customer to deal with. I don't care how busy you are, there is always time to say Hi. Its not that big of a deal.

One difference between a mom and pop store compared to a big box store is this, at least that I've noticed. At a big box store, I often see the employee's standing around bs'ing with each other TOTALLY ignoring customers, this really pisses me off. On the other hand I see this all the time at mom and pop stores, the "regulars" are in the store hanging out bs'ing with the owner or person working at the time. They're not buying anything and are just shooting the **** which is fine UNTIL the person working there is ignoring either me or some other customer that is looking for help. I see this all the time at every mom and pop shop I go to, not just gun stores.

I've had a really good experience with Arnzen on several occasions, they seem to have a good understanding of this for the most part, some of the other stores in town, not so much.

The guy at frontiersman TOTALLY makes me feel like I'm bothering him, I don't know his name but when I ask to see a gun and get the "look" followed by a big sigh that pretty much says it all. Haven't been back since but probably will at some point, I try to give people like this the benefit of the doubt and figure their not an *******, they just haven't developed themselves in this area, BUT, I've yet to buy a gun from there yet and have bought 4 guns since then at other stores so their loosing out.

[sjuhockey10]

I've never had anything but a good experience at Gunstop. Then again, as others have mentioned, I enjoy not being pestered by somebody who assumes that I don't know what I'm looking at/for.

[OldmanFCSA]

My dog, Murphy, gets excellent service at GunStop. But then Larry spoils him with bones. I usually am "trolling" the reloading side of the store, looking for items that may help in my reloading and shooting the 50BMG target rifles.
But Murphy knows no boundaries, he fits under the swinging doors of counters and can open doors at his leisure.