Clip vs Magazine

[LarryFlew]

I'm aware of the AR, pointing out that general public is not. They see it as having been named an assault rifle from the beginning. Can't count the number of times I have explained that AR doesn't stand for assault rifle aannnndddd I'm guessing even then they probably still think that is what the AR is for.

[ex-LT]

but we should also pick our battles.

^^^ We have a winner!

There are bigger battles that need to be fought right now, and if we waste our time and resources arguing semantics with the other side, we're going to lose. Better that we should focus our time, energy, and money on winning the war instead of a small battle that likely won't have any effect on the outcome.

[photogpat]

but we should also pick our battles.

^^^ We have a winner!

There are bigger battles that need to be fought right now, and if we waste our time and resources arguing semantics with the other side, we're going to lose. Better that we should focus our time, energy, and money on winning the war instead of a small battle that likely won't have any effect on the outcome.

Exactly! Better mental health care, remove the stigma of mental illness, strengthen reporting of crimes to NICS by States...I see too many devolve into arguing terminology with people for whom its an emotional issue.

Stick to the message, and don't get drawn into the terminology.

The Newtown shooter had between 8-20 minutes to complete his massacre depending on which timeline you read - almost enough time to have done his deed with a flintlock. Magazine capacity, or the fact that he used a Bushmaster is irrelevant. Why was he even out walking the streets is a better question.

[XDM45]

Stick to the message, and don't get drawn into the terminology.

I get what you're saying, and I agree with it from the standpoint in which you're stating it from; so in that way, we agree.... Don't get hung up on semantics and the meaning of words in turn for losing the message and it's meaning. I get it.... HOWEVER, here's the rub on that, which leads me to my point of this post........... if the general masses are confused about incorrect terms and spout them like the politicians do (and are), it can lead to an unholy mess because (the generally-un/mis-informed-public and politicians) are saying one thing, when they mean another... Example: "clips", "assault weapons" etc and then when it comes to define it, the challenge is even larger because the terms and meanings are incorrect, incomplete, wrong, and it's too vague and ambiguous that it's going to cause all sorts of problems (which would be far worse now than in 1994 for guns if any of the craziness passes into law) that we just don't need.

Lets take an example I used a few posts ago,and put it into a scenario...we'll take the term "PC" which means "Personal Computer" and propose that Group A wants to ban all "PC"s, so the fight for legislation on it, they spout incorrect terminology, wrong names for the wrong things, etc, and now they win and all "PC"s get banned..... Well, an Apple Macintosh *IS* a "PC", a "Personal Computer". It's not a mainframe, so it too would get caught up in that mess. What should have been done is to ban "Microsoft Windows", which is what most people actually mean when they say "PC".

As I said before, words have power. Look up the legal definition and what "shall" means, what "person" means, and a few others as well, it's not what you think. I get the whole deal about not arguing semantics and just getting the message out there, but an incorrect message is worse than no message at all I believe. You and others can, will, and probably do have a different opinion than I do, and I'm ok with that. It doesn't bother me in the least. We have tons of people in the US Government who want to ban "assault weapons", which is said pretty well here: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/12/the_gun_glossary_definitions_of_firearm_lingo_and_types_of_weapons.html

"Assault weapons: There is little agreement on what constitutes an assault weapon, even among firearm enthusiasts. Legal definitions vary from state to state: Connecticut defines an assault weapon as “any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semi-automatic, or burst fire at the options of the user.” In Virginia, any gun with a magazine capacity greater than 20 rounds counts. The now-expired Federal Assault Weapon Ban, passed in 1994, laid out complex guidelines to define which firearms were considered assault weapons. (Most were AR-15s and AK-47s.) The federal definition of an assault weapon expired with that law in 2004. However, most gun experts agree that fully automatic firearms (defined below) count as assault weapons, as do some higher-caliber semi-automatic guns."

The better we define things, the better we can defend AGAINST banning them or other laws which limit our rights (as all laws do.) That's how lawyers win with loopholes and such since things aren't clearly defined, precedence is set in case law, and a myriad of other ways I'm not aware of because IANAL. The devil is in the details and that's why contracts and laws are written to try and be as all-inclusive as possible.

Again, I get it about just getting he message out there to people regardless of if something is called a "clip" "magazine" or "little fluffy foo foo pants"; but we as a community of gun owners need to educate people one person at a time. I can't control what anyone else does, but I will educate people while perpetuating the message in favor of 2A rights, freedom, responsible gun ownership, and the whole lot.

[photogpat]

Wow, consensus.

We can educate people to the terminology as an aside...but not as our first statement in the discussion or argument.

Sweet. I think I'll have a beer....mmmmm...Surly.....

[sgruenhagen44]

stupid argument. Lessons learned? This is a waste of time... and that Heffay will always troll and his annual post count will outnumber his actual round count down range

[XDM45]

stupid argument. Lessons learned? This is a waste of time... and that Heffay will always troll and his annual post count will outnumber his actual round count down range

SCORE!! For that true comment, I owe YOU a beer!!

[jshuberg]

When I hear someone calling a magazine a clip at the range, I pay a little extra attention to them. If they don't even know the name of their equipment there's a good chance they also have no idea how to use it properly or safely.

When I hear a law enforcement official call a magazine a clip during a press conference, I begin to wonder what other complete and total incompetence they're suffering from when they can't even remember the name of a thing that they've been trained and qualified on.

[elroy]

When I hear someone calling a magazine a clip at the range, I pay a little extra attention to them. If they don't even know the name of their equipment there's a good chance they also have no idea how to use it properly or safely.

When I hear a law enforcement official call a magazine a clip during a press conference, I begin to wonder what other complete and total incompetence they're suffering from when they can't even remember the name of a thing that they've been trained and qualified on.

+1

[Heffay]

When I hear someone calling a magazine a clip at the range, I pay a little extra attention to them. If they don't even know the name of their equipment there's a good chance they also have no idea how to use it properly or safely.

When I hear a law enforcement official call a magazine a clip during a press conference, I begin to wonder what other complete and total incompetence they're suffering from when they can't even remember the name of a thing that they've been trained and qualified on.

+1

Except people aren't using the word "clip" improperly. They are using it the correct way.

[photogpat]

I'm out.

/unsubscribe

[LarryFlew]

When I hear someone calling a magazine a clip at the range, I pay a little extra attention to them. If they don't even know the name of their equipment there's a good chance they also have no idea how to use it properly or safely.

When I hear a law enforcement official call a magazine a clip during a press conference, I begin to wonder what other complete and total incompetence they're suffering from when they can't even remember the name of a thing that they've been trained and qualified on.

Well said

[XDM45]

When I hear someone calling a magazine a clip at the range, I pay a little extra attention to them. If they don't even know the name of their equipment there's a good chance they also have no idea how to use it properly or safely.

When I hear a law enforcement official call a magazine a clip during a press conference, I begin to wonder what other complete and total incompetence they're suffering from when they can't even remember the name of a thing that they've been trained and qualified on.

Well said

+1 as well.

[sgruenhagen44]

[tazdevil]

And with that, this thread has now almost achieved total derailment. Just missing a few snippets, and it will achieve it.

It does "bug" me when I'm standing there admiring or contemplating a purchase and a "homie" walks in with attitude and says something to the effect of "yo, I be needing a bunch o' clips for my fotay". I tend to distance myself a bit, as I don't think they'd find it as humorous as I do. [NOTE: "Homie" comes in many colors and sizes, so don't be hating on me.]