SPLIT ** General conversation about how ranges should be run

[XDM45]

8 pages later the troll has got the best of me and I'll weigh in:

I'd like to see a few changes at Bills
1. At robinsdale fix the pit so I don't loose all my brass and give me another foot on the table in the rear and another foot of hallway so guys don't nock my stuff of the shelf or step on my bag.
2. Keep the centerfire rifles and hand cannons in the seperated lanes form the pistol shooters. They are loud and are disruptive to a pistol shooter.
3. Have an actual RO on duty and observing the folks on the line. I see guys moving guns from the bench to the line on every visit, chamber closed, who knows if they are loaded or not. For what you pay for a lane they can staff an RO for each group of lanes.
4. Fix the target holders, there has to be a way to get a piece of cardboard onto the holders. the little clips they have can't hold a paper plate.

I know number 1 is not realistic but yea, at least these are constructive suggestions. Which is more than I can say for 7 of the 8 pages so far.

If they'd act on your suggestions I might actually shoot at Robbinsdale again and Bill's in general.

I agree with all of that. I hate the holders at Bill's. the ones at BPR rock.

[Synergy]

I won't shoot at the "pit" ever again, what a waste of good brass.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Just to add fuel to the fire, I think shooting a centerfire rifle at under 200 yards is silly and a waste of ammo and time. I feel the same way about 95% of the duffers I see shooting their rifles off sandbags at the 100 yard line.

Now before all you 3 gun and Benchrest guys scream at your monitors, if you like shooting your rifle at 15 yards or shooting 1 hole groups, God bless and carry on. It isn't my cup of tea.

I also don't shoot indoors, I'd rather be out in the elements, even when it's cold.

[grousemaster]

This is starting to sound a lot like the "carrying and logic" thread....

[The Lance]

I guess some of the bullet trajectory logic doesn't seem to be known to some at 25meters which is around 27yards an AR15 is poa/poi at 250m. So yes there is a great reason for me to zero in my rifle at that range. It works for home defense, and covers most hunting.

If you were aware of where a bullet would land at any distance you can adjust accordingly.

[grousemaster]

I guess some of the bullet trajectory logic doesn't seem to be known to some at 25meters which is around 27yards an AR15 is poa/poi at 250m. So yes there is a great reason for me to zero in my rifle at that range. It works for home defense, and covers most hunting.

If you were aware of where a bullet would land at any distance you can adjust accordingly.

Yep. I use trajectory logic all the time to zero my rifle for certain distances by zeroing up close (25-50 yds). When done correctly, it always works.

[peckerhead]

I guess some of the bullet trajectory logic doesn't seem to be known to some at 25meters which is around 27yards an AR15 is poa/poi at 250m. So yes there is a great reason for me to zero in my rifle at that range. It works for home defense, and covers most hunting.

If you were aware of where a bullet would land at any distance you can adjust accordingly.

Yep. I use trajectory logic all the time to zero my rifle for certain distances by zeroing up close (25-50 yds). When done correctly, it always works.

I've been shooting handguns for quite a few years now, and got into long guns and marksmanship a few years ago. I'm not near as knowledgeable as some, but even I understand trajectory logic enough to sight in my 30-30 at Bill's North (well, back when I still patronized Bill's). Maybe shooting from a sandbag rest at a 100 yd. target makes me look stupid, I don't know. But you have to start somewhere.

As silly as the AR looks, it does have its purpose. A carbine rifle is by definition a shorter, lighter rifle that's meant to be easier to handle during CQC, and the idea that you wouldn't want one for a defensive situation is just silly. If you were fighting for your life, why would you settle for a handgun, when you could have double the stopping power, and four times the accuracy? Even my trusty 30-30 with iron sights would be far superior to any defensive caliber handgun, although reloads would be a little tedious. A peripheral hit from that thing would probably end the fight.

It's a shame that some people don't take the time to research the things they post up such strong opinions about. I've never understood why people are so inclined, especially given the fact that we are living in a modern information age, where pretty much anything anyone wants to know about any subject can be had with just a few keystrokes.

And the "range rules" posted up earlier? All that would happen would be you'd get more people like me, who simply refuse to patronize businesses that treat us like we're stupid, regardless of whether or not we're in compliance with the rules. It's why I refuse to patronize Bill's, and I know I'm not the only one. I drive right by Bill's North on my way out of town to go shooting.

[The Lance]

The problem is a certain someone thinks they know what they're talking about..

But in reality why would any of us listen to some moron who is **** up in the head enough to open carry full time..

[Heffay]

The problem is a certain someone thinks they know what they're talking about..

But in reality why would any of us listen to some moron who is **** up in the head enough to open carry full time..

+like.

[grousemaster]

The problem is a certain someone thinks they know what they're talking about..

But in reality why would any of us listen to some moron who is **** up in the head enough to open carry full time..

+like.

lol.....

[XDM45]

The problem is a certain someone thinks they know what they're talking about..

But in reality why would any of us listen to some moron who is **** up in the head enough to open carry full time..

Come on. Don't be a wimp Name the name. It's me you're talking about, and hey, that's your opinion, cool by me. In my opinion, you an a-hole, so in a sense we both agree about the other.

If you don't have the balls to name my name, then no wonder you don't have the balls to OC either.

[Thunder71]

The problem is a certain someone thinks they know what they're talking about..

But in reality why would any of us listen to some moron who is **** up in the head enough to open carry full time..

Come on. Don't be a wimp Name the name. It's me you're talking about, and hey, that's your opinion, cool by me. In my opinion, you an a-hole, so in a sense we both agree about the other.

If you don't have the balls to name my name, then no wonder you don't have the balls to OC either.

Agreed.

Let's do exactly what the anti's want an divide... Concealed carriers over there and open carriers over here, now let's attack the open carriers first and get rid of those guys... once they are gone we'll have an opening in place to get at the concealed carriers as well.

Come on guys, we're in this together... let's not be critical of the legal choices others make to suit their own personal life.

[XDM45]

The problem is a certain someone thinks they know what they're talking about..

But in reality why would any of us listen to some moron who is **** up in the head enough to open carry full time..

Come on. Don't be a wimp Name the name. It's me you're talking about, and hey, that's your opinion, cool by me. In my opinion, you an a-hole, so in a sense we both agree about the other.

If you don't have the balls to name my name, then no wonder you don't have the balls to OC either.

Agreed.

Let's do exactly what the anti's want an divide... Concealed carriers over there and open carriers over here, now let's attack the open carriers first and get rid of those guys... once they are gone we'll have an opening in place to get at the concealed carriers as well.

Come on guys, we're in this together... let's not be critical of the legal choices others make to suit their own personal life.

Thanks Thunder71. The 2 now-famous threads "carrying and logic" and "making o.c. illegal" have pretty much nailed it home for me that OC is not only looked down upon on here (as well as those who choose to do it), but with outright hatred as well.

hmac has openly said he doesn't agree with it or like it, as has The Lance, those are two I can think of right off the bat. I'm sure there's others too, but whatever...this also drives home my point of division with the gun community, the lack of unity, and it seems there will always be this great divide. Pretty sad.

[Mn01r6]

Thanks Thunder71. The 2 now-famous threads "carrying and logic" and "making o.c. illegal" have pretty much nailed it home for me that OC is not only looked down upon on here (as well as those who choose to do it), but with outright hatred as well.

hmac has openly said he doesn't agree with it or like it, as has The Lance, those are two I can think of right off the bat. I'm sure there's others too, but whatever...this also drives home my point of division with the gun community, the lack of unity, and it seems there will always be this great divide. Pretty sad.

I think most people said they don't want you OC'ing because you represent yourself poorly on this forum and we assume you do the same (petty straw man arguments and choosing not to respond to challenges to your previous statements) when you are talking with the general public. In all, I think you are poorly informed but that doesn't stop you from being a know-it-all about things you know very little: how ranges should be run or what gun to use for SD or when to OC, to name just a few. You also have some serious fudd thinking that creeps in every once in a while even though you try to contain it.

[The Lance]

Come on. Don't be a wimp Name the name. It's me you're talking about, and hey, that's your opinion, cool by me. In my opinion, you an a-hole, so in a sense we both agree about the other.

If you don't have the balls to name my name, then no wonder you don't have the balls to OC either.

I don't know what's you're talking about. If you think that my statement is about you well that's your problem.

If God intended you to open carry he must have also intended me to think before I speak; not be a moron and represent myself in an intelligent manner.