Taser technique

[MNGunner]

That poor girl...The guard is obviously white, and was trying to put her down, like every other cracker in power. I think she should sue him, the security company, the mall and the maker of the taser.

Them things is dangerous!


Sock puppet troll acct folks........banned

Hopefully this particular post was not the reason why "St Olaf", whoever he was, got banned.
Because it apperss to be a case of "sarcasm that in spide of the low altimter reading sitll managed to put an wind in the hair of "tousi"...

[MNGunner]

[
1) The security guard didn't handle himself in a professional manner and he escalated the situation.

I don't think that he is concerned about that part. He appears to be primarily concerned about trying to keep garbage out.

[ex-LT]

That poor girl...The guard is obviously white, and was trying to put her down, like every other cracker in power. I think she should sue him, the security company, the mall and the maker of the taser.

Them things is dangerous!


Sock puppet troll acct folks........banned

Hopefully this particular post was not the reason why "St Olaf", whoever he was, got banned.
Because it apperss to be a case of "sarcasm that in spide of the low altimter reading sitll managed to put an wind in the hair of "tousi"...

Different St Olaf. The one ttousi banned was St Olaf (no period in the name), the one causing all the heartache and discontent in the Politics forum is St. Olaf.

[XDM45]

[
1) The security guard didn't handle himself in a professional manner and he escalated the situation.

I don't think that he is concerned about that part. He appears to be primarily concerned about trying to keep garbage out.

Well, if that's the only concern, he should have just shot her with a pistol. That's the only way to prevent garbage from getting in.

I'm not really advocating shooting her or anyone, but only making a point that it's not just the end result that matters, but rather how you get there that counts as well. (aka the end doesn't justify the means, as the old saying goes....) if it's only the end result which matters, there's lots of ways to do obtain that goal, and they aren't legal, moral, or ethical, but they do work. (Forensics is another great example where the means matters as much as the end result because it's not just that the cops got the data off the hard drive which matters, but HOW they got it off, which will affect the case as well.)

There's lots of ways to keep people out without tasing, shooting, being brutal to them, etc. A large part of being a security guard is having the right people skills (aka soft skills), not just brute force.

I stand by my points made in this thread. He could have handled the situation better than what he did and he's just as guilty.

Let me ask you this.....If you were on a jury and you saw him shoot her with a pistol, would you say it was done in justifiable self-defense? He could have locked the doors, called for backup when it started to escalate, not contribute to the escalation himself, etc. MANY other options before tasing her or anyone else. People have died from Tasers, and just like guns or any other weapon, they need to be respected and handled as such because even though they are designed to be non-lethal, they sometimes are.

Perhaps it's just my opinion and perception, but the comments I've see on YouTube and here reflect a vigilante mindset like "the b deserved it. EFF YEAH!! Hit her again!! Make that b jump from the shock!!"

....and we wonder why the antis think were a bunch of trigger happy gun nuts.

Keyrist. How repulsive.

[BigBlue]

Let me ask you this.....If you were on a jury and you saw him shoot her with a pistol, would you say it was done in justifiable self-defense? He could have locked the doors, called for backup when it started to escalate, not contribute to the escalation himself, etc. MANY other options before tasing her or anyone else. People have died from Tasers, and just like guns or any other weapon, they need to be respected and handled as such because even though they are designed to be non-lethal, they sometimes are.

Perhaps it's just my opinion and perception, but the comments I've see on YouTube and here reflect a vigilante mindset like "the b deserved it. EFF YEAH!! Hit her again!! Make that b jump from the shock!!"

....and we wonder why the antis think were a bunch of trigger happy gun nuts.

This incident isn't about guns in any way and therefore nothing 'anti' is at all applicable. This is about multiple people behaving badly and a guy doing his job to prevent them from being where they were kicked out of.

You can build all the hypotheticals you want and Monday-morning quarterback it til you're blue in the face, but this guy did the right thing. She was being an absolute ass, which is not a qualification for tasering. But then she starts physically accosting him. That warrants the reaction he gave. You weren't there. You don't know whether he called the cops or not. You don't know anything else about the situation except what you see in the video. And what I see is that she deserved what she got because she physically accosted him.

BB

[20mm]

Pretty bad technique, aren't you supposed to set it down while it keeps shocking them on a regularly scheduled basis? CS canister might have been a better choice all around.

[MNGunner]

[
1) The security guard didn't handle himself in a professional manner and he escalated the situation.

I don't think that he is concerned about that part. He appears to be primarily concerned about trying to keep garbage out.

Well, if that's the only concern, he should have just shot her with a pistol. That's the only way to prevent garbage from getting in.

I'm not really advocating shooting her or anyone, but only making a point that it's not just the end result that matters, but rather how you get there that counts as well. (aka the end doesn't justify the means, as the old saying goes....) if it's only the end result which matters, there's lots of ways to do obtain that goal, and they aren't legal, moral, or ethical, but they do work. (Forensics is another great example where the means matters as much as the end result because it's not just that the cops got the data off the hard drive which matters, but HOW they got it off, which will affect the case as well.)

There's lots of ways to keep people out without tasing, shooting, being brutal to them, etc. A large part of being a security guard is having the right people skills (aka soft skills), not just brute force.

I stand by my points made in this thread. He could have handled the situation better than what he did and he's just as guilty.

Let me ask you this.....If you were on a jury and you saw him shoot her with a pistol, would you say it was done in justifiable self-defense? He could have locked the doors, called for backup when it started to escalate, not contribute to the escalation himself, etc. MANY other options before tasing her or anyone else. People have died from Tasers, and just like guns or any other weapon, they need to be respected and handled as such because even though they are designed to be non-lethal, they sometimes are.

Perhaps it's just my opinion and perception, but the comments I've see on YouTube and here reflect a vigilante mindset like "the b deserved it. EFF YEAH!! Hit her again!! Make that b jump from the shock!!"

....and we wonder why the antis think were a bunch of trigger happy gun nuts.

Keyrist. How repulsive.

Yeah, he could have any number of things differently, but most of those choices would have come with the cost of missing the opportunity to taser that ho-bag.

[XDM45]

This incident isn't about guns in any way and therefore nothing 'anti' is at all applicable. This is about multiple people behaving badly and a guy doing his job to prevent them from being where they were kicked out of.

My comments regarding the antis is that if someone who subscribes to the anti-gun belief were to look at this forum, they would see things as I said it, that's all.

Also, you can be your ass that IF she died from being tasered, that video will most likely result in his being charged criminally, but with what exact charges, I can't say. Something relating to excessive use of force comes to mind. I stand by my original statements and add that he needs training, he is also in the wrong, and that's my opinion. You and everyone else is certainly as entitled to their own as I am to mine.

You can build all the hypothetical you want and Monday-morning quarterback it til you're blue in the face, but this guy did the right thing.

"Right" and "Wrong" are very subjective, so much so that even the law isn't so black and white, thus it's open to interpretation. I'll agree to say that there is right and wrong for each individual, so in your mind, he was right and she was wrong, but that is not the same as right and wrong for all. In fact, dare I say that each person has their own version of right and wrong, none are exactly alike, and the best we can hope for is some common ground and common agreement in some areas. I'm very leery of absolutes.

She was being an absolute ass, which is not a qualification for tasering.

Exactly....IF that was your complete statement.

But

Stop right there.

Whenever someone says "but", please disregard everything they said previously in the sentence or statement because they just negated what they said by adding "but" because anything before "but" is merely a setup for what they really want to say and mean which is after "but".

Example A: You know I'd never want to hurt your feelings at all, but you sister is a skanky hoe that hit on me.
vs.
Example B: Your sister is a skanky hoe that hit on me.

See how that works?

Ok. Let's continue on with your real statement of "then she starts physically accosting him" and I'll acknowledge "She was being an absolute ass, which is not a qualification for tasering." as the excuse for her attacking him. No, she CHOSE to attack him. You're assuming the reason for the attack is that she was being an ass, maybe she didn't like tall black men, or who knows what other reason/excuse is justified in her mind. I certainly don't know.

That warrants the reaction he gave.

So if someone starts acting like that towards me, I should tase them or shoot them? I don't think that's going to bode very well for anyone.

You weren't there. You don't know whether he called the cops or not. You don't know anything else about the situation except what you see in the video.

The exact same applies to you as well.

And what I see is that she deserved what she got because she physically accosted him.

"deserved" ? That's rather emotional. This isn't Texas, "He needed killin'" isn't a valid defense here - or there in Atlanta, GA either.

"Right" "Wrong" "Deserved" these are very subjective words with highly volatile meanings that can be spun a thousand different ways. Physical assault means that the other person can defend themselves by shooting that person with a weapon. Maybe that weapon is a taser, maybe it's a gun. How do define which is most appropriate for which situation? Also, that situation varies. AOI comes into play, and that alone is a rabbit hole we can drill down into pretty extensively.

I've been in some pretty hot situations worse than that and managed to talk my way out of them. No force of any kind needed to be used.

You are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine, and I stand by what I said. We will have to agree to disagree.

I'm all for one's right to defend themselves, but neither of these people would want me on their jury because I would convict them both.

[BigBlue]

Let me make it a little more clear for you so you don't get confused and sidetrack things with your verbal analysis of my wording (anal being a key component of that word, btw).

When she was only being an ass by verbally abusing the guy tasing wasn't warranted. Once she began physically accosting the security guard by hitting him it became warranted. His actions were appropriate to deal with it. As soon as she started hitting there was no longer a need or expectation for him to just keep 'talking his way out of things'. If talking is your tactic to deal with a similar situation, so be it. That's your choice. But a reasonable person watching this exchange would likely agree that his actions were warranted.

Carry on with your next picking apart of my post...

[XDM45]

Let me make it a little more clear for you so you don't get confused and sidetrack things with your verbal analysis of my wording (anal being a key component of that word, btw).

Words and meanings matter. The nuances of words, grammar, can and do change things such as meaning within the context of the word as well as within the context of a statement that word is used. As much as all of this is true with words, what someone says doesn't always match with what someone does; so watch what someone does more than what they say.

Anal? Yes, very much so when it comes to language and what people do. Absolutely. Guilty as charged. I wholly admit I'm a stickler.

When she was only being an ass by verbally abusing the guy tasing wasn't warranted.

Agreed.

Once she began physically accosting the security guard by hitting him it became warranted.

I disagree.

I think there's things that need to be considered, variables, such as height, weight, age, sex, AOI, and a buttload more to consider vs. just stating "W did X to Y so Z is justified. End of story." It's just not that cut and dry.

If a 5' 4" woman is hitting a 6' 5" man, is he justified? What if it's the other way around? What if that woman is a 3rd degree Black Belt and the man is untrained? What if he's handicapped? There's a zillion factors that come into play here and never are all things equal so it is all back and white. Life is more a shade of gray than black and white, especially where the law is concerned from my experience. Rather tha divert off-topic into these areas, It will have to suffice what I've said about it, lest we go down the rabbit hole on the subject.

His actions were appropriate to deal with it.

As noted above, and in all of my previous posts, I have, will always, and still, disagree with that opinion.

As soon as she started hitting there was no longer a need or expectation for him to just keep 'talking his way out of things'.

So there weren't any other options for him? Really? Tasing is it eh? If so, he's a pretty bad security guard and should be fired as well as criminally charged.

If talking is your tactic to deal with a similar situation, so be it. That's your choice.

Deescalation is always my first choice. He had the opportunity to do that well before the first hit. He failed at doing so. Many times confrontations can be avoided altogether or averted. Not always, no. Sometimes there isn't time for talking and other actions are needed, but in this video, in that situation, I don't believe that's the case.

But a reasonable person watching this exchange would likely agree that his actions were warranted.

"Good" "Bad" "Deserved" "Reasonable" all of these words used by you are very vauge and leave a lot of wiggle room because they're so open to interpretation, perception and opinion.

Carry on with your next picking apart of my post...

I'm not picking apart your post or your opinion, nor am I trying to "prove" anything such as one of us "right" and the other "wrong"; no, I'm merely stating my opinion based on the information I have, the video we've both seen.

[shooter115]

Here's the best commentary I've seen on the whole ordeal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu1_3hDNKA0&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[XDM45]

Here's the best commentary I've seen on the whole ordeal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu1_3hDNKA0&feature=endscreen&NR=1

I like what the guy at the link above had to say. He made a lot of valid points regarding the low-lifes.

I'm glad she was charged.

I STILL think the security guard was out of line and needs to be charged. Besides the fact he used a taser, if he was armed with a gun, then it could probably be considered a "gun fight" because he was armed, but I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say that for sure. I CAN say that would be considered in a court of law. Now maybe he didn't get charged in Atlanta, but if that situation happened here exactly as it did down there, would he be charged? I don't know. I certainly wouldn't want to be a test case to find out either.

Believe me, I get it. Sometimes you just want to put the beat down on someone, even if you do think they deserve it, you feel justified, etc, but those are emotional responses, not logical ones. I can't tell you the number of times I see things in public that make me wish "parents" would actually BE parents instead of just sperm and egg donors because their hellspawn are out of control. I'd LOVE to say something, but I don't....because I carry and I don't ever want to escalate or cause a situation.

I also get it that it's the security guard's job to protect the businesses, but does that mean at any cost? Maybe he needs to go get a better paying job with less bs.

[shooter115]

Charge him.......Screw that!!! Give the guy a fully automatic belt fed tazer and let him take out the trash.

[XDM45]

Charge him.......Screw that!!! Give the guy a fully automatic belt fed tazer and let him take out the trash.

Let's just shoot everyone that annoys us eh?

[shooter115]

Charge him.......Screw that!!! Give the guy a fully automatic belt fed tazer and let him take out the trash.

Let's just shoot everyone that annoys us eh?

Watching some of the other videos that he's taken. It seems a little shock therapy to the people he has do deal with would be a good thing. There should be consequences for behaving like that and a tazer seems pretty appropriate and effective to me. You may disagree and I'm fine with that. If anyone ever see's me behaving in such a manor you have my permission to taze me.