NICS related Question

[jshuberg]

Seems to me they could just require a PTP or PTC for all transfers, universal background covered. But I think they are looking for something more intrusive.

That's not a bad idea, and what most responsible people do anyways. However, there's two problems with making this into a law:

1) It doesn't provide for a registry of firearms, so it doesn't achieve the true goal of the libs.

2) There is no way to ensure the law is being followed without a registry, and so there will be an even greater call to implement a registry to close the "enforcement" loophole in the background check system.

If they were to just leave it as a PTP/PTC requirement I'd have no problem with it. Unfortunately, we all know they won't stop until they get their registry. If we give them a reasonable inch, they'll take a tyrannical mile from us.

[340PD]

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I've just always assumed the government has a backdoor registry in effect and always has. I've just assumed that when the 4473 is called in that the information which is supposed to go away, somehow, doesn't. Instead it gets copied off to some other agency without any trace of having been done so. I know it's technically illegal but I've just never had a doubt that "some" agency within the government is keeping a registration of all guns sold and to whom. Again, it's not completely effective since private sales are still allowed (for now) but I've just always assumed that buried in some law somewhere it's actually either been made legal or some agency is just doing it. Either that or something more current like the Unpatriotic Act or some law having to do with "national security" has made it necessary to keep this information "for the good of the people".

[Thunderjohn]

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I've just always assumed the government has a backdoor registry in effect and always has. I've just assumed that when the 4473 is called in that the information which is supposed to go away, somehow, doesn't. Instead it gets copied off to some other agency without any trace of having been done so. I know it's technically illegal but I've just never had a doubt that "some" agency within the government is keeping a registration of all guns sold and to whom. Again, it's not completely effective since private sales are still allowed (for now) but I've just always assumed that buried in some law somewhere it's actually either been made legal or some agency is just doing it. Either that or something more current like the Unpatriotic Act or some law having to do with "national security" has made it necessary to keep this information "for the good of the people".

Even if the gov't had a secret database, when we call in the NICS checks or do them online,
we don't give them any specific firearm information. All they get is handgun, long gun or other.

[Username000]

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I've just always assumed the government has a backdoor registry in effect and always has. I've just assumed that when the 4473 is called in that the information which is supposed to go away, somehow, doesn't. Instead it gets copied off to some other agency without any trace of having been done so. I know it's technically illegal but I've just never had a doubt that "some" agency within the government is keeping a registration of all guns sold and to whom. Again, it's not completely effective since private sales are still allowed (for now) but I've just always assumed that buried in some law somewhere it's actually either been made legal or some agency is just doing it. Either that or something more current like the Unpatriotic Act or some law having to do with "national security" has made it necessary to keep this information "for the good of the people".

Even if the gov't had a secret database, when we call in the NICS checks or do them online,
we don't give them any specific firearm information. All they get is handgun, long gun or other.

I think that's bad enough. "This guy bought a gun, put him on the list."

[Thunderjohn]

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I've just always assumed the government has a backdoor registry in effect and always has. I've just assumed that when the 4473 is called in that the information which is supposed to go away, somehow, doesn't. Instead it gets copied off to some other agency without any trace of having been done so. I know it's technically illegal but I've just never had a doubt that "some" agency within the government is keeping a registration of all guns sold and to whom. Again, it's not completely effective since private sales are still allowed (for now) but I've just always assumed that buried in some law somewhere it's actually either been made legal or some agency is just doing it. Either that or something more current like the Unpatriotic Act or some law having to do with "national security" has made it necessary to keep this information "for the good of the people".

Even if the gov't had a secret database, when we call in the NICS checks or do them online,
we don't give them any specific firearm information. All they get is handgun, long gun or other.

I think that's bad enough. "This guy bought a gun, put him on the list."

Along with 100 million others. Quite a list.

[grousemaster]

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I've just always assumed the government has a backdoor registry in effect and always has. I've just assumed that when the 4473 is called in that the information which is supposed to go away, somehow, doesn't. Instead it gets copied off to some other agency without any trace of having been done so. I know it's technically illegal but I've just never had a doubt that "some" agency within the government is keeping a registration of all guns sold and to whom. Again, it's not completely effective since private sales are still allowed (for now) but I've just always assumed that buried in some law somewhere it's actually either been made legal or some agency is just doing it. Either that or something more current like the Unpatriotic Act or some law having to do with "national security" has made it necessary to keep this information "for the good of the people".

Even if the gov't had a secret database, when we call in the NICS checks or do them online,
we don't give them any specific firearm information. All they get is handgun, long gun or other.

I think that's bad enough. "This guy bought a gun, put him on the list."

Getting the NICs check does not mean you buy the gun. Most people do, but I've had folks that were delayed, and when eventually approved they had decided against the purchase.

[grousemaster]

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I've just always assumed the government has a backdoor registry in effect and always has. I've just assumed that when the 4473 is called in that the information which is supposed to go away, somehow, doesn't. Instead it gets copied off to some other agency without any trace of having been done so. I know it's technically illegal but I've just never had a doubt that "some" agency within the government is keeping a registration of all guns sold and to whom. Again, it's not completely effective since private sales are still allowed (for now) but I've just always assumed that buried in some law somewhere it's actually either been made legal or some agency is just doing it. Either that or something more current like the Unpatriotic Act or some law having to do with "national security" has made it necessary to keep this information "for the good of the people".

A registry is expressly forbidden per federal law. The Firearm Owners Protection Act is a good thing....

[Username000]

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I've just always assumed the government has a backdoor registry in effect and always has. I've just assumed that when the 4473 is called in that the information which is supposed to go away, somehow, doesn't. Instead it gets copied off to some other agency without any trace of having been done so. I know it's technically illegal but I've just never had a doubt that "some" agency within the government is keeping a registration of all guns sold and to whom. Again, it's not completely effective since private sales are still allowed (for now) but I've just always assumed that buried in some law somewhere it's actually either been made legal or some agency is just doing it. Either that or something more current like the Unpatriotic Act or some law having to do with "national security" has made it necessary to keep this information "for the good of the people".

A registry is expressly forbidden per federal law. The Firearm Owners Protection Act is a good thing....

Do you think our government follows all the laws?

[grousemaster]

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I've just always assumed the government has a backdoor registry in effect and always has. I've just assumed that when the 4473 is called in that the information which is supposed to go away, somehow, doesn't. Instead it gets copied off to some other agency without any trace of having been done so. I know it's technically illegal but I've just never had a doubt that "some" agency within the government is keeping a registration of all guns sold and to whom. Again, it's not completely effective since private sales are still allowed (for now) but I've just always assumed that buried in some law somewhere it's actually either been made legal or some agency is just doing it. Either that or something more current like the Unpatriotic Act or some law having to do with "national security" has made it necessary to keep this information "for the good of the people".

A registry is expressly forbidden per federal law. The Firearm Owners Protection Act is a good thing....

Do you think our government follows all the laws?

Paranoid? If you have information to the contrary, please share so I can join in the ground breaking lawsuit.

[jshuberg]

The Firearm Owners Protection Act is a good thing....

The 1986 machine gun ban?

[grousemaster]

The Firearm Owners Protection Act is a good thing....

The 1986 machine gun ban?

Obviously not. Machine gun regulation started way before that. I was referencing the registry part, which is the topic of this thread

"The Act also forbade the U.S. Government agency from keeping a registry directly linking non-National Firearms Act firearms to their owners, the specific language of this law (Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926) being:
No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation."