Who has quit shooting?

[FJ540]

I loaded up all my .45 brass this weekend. Only about 350rds worth, but it's enough to keep me going for a while. I have plenty of bullets, powder, and primers - just not any more brass.

Quick word of thanks to those who've offered me brass, but I don't really need any more. I loaded up what I had, and will shoot through it and reload it again.

[CraigJS]

NEVER stop. Just slowing down a bit.

[XDM45]

There was a recent Handguns episode (TV show) where they showed a .45ACP going out 100 yards without much drop-off...

Unlikely, unless he was running a pistol with an unusually long 16" barrel or something.

For example, a Hydra-Shock 165gr .45cal bullet will drop around 10.6" at 100 yards. Anything past ~55 yards and you'll have to hold an elevated front sight for POI to be within 2" of POA. Different rounds will perform slightly differently, but "without much drop-off" out to 100 just isn't going to happen with a .45 pistol.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/ ... spx?id=405

Season 3, Episode 12, maybe you can find the complete thing on YouTube.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tv/

[XDM45]

One person working alone in a "combat" zone is a recipe for a funeral. You can't drive and fend off some other vehicle with a handgun all that well either. If you think you can, you've seen too many movies.

Look at things like the LA riots and Katrina. People who were successful took up positions on roofs and used rifles to deter aggressors.

Even the tactical tv shows play it up far more desirable than it's likely to be. If someone wanted your car, they're not going to drive you off the road and pull you out of it. They're going to shoot you and wait for it to stop rolling.

I totally agree. Being a One Man Rambo is a fantasy, not reality, -especially where with only a pistol, - all the more reason for ammo, guns (pistols and rifles,) supplies, a secure location, trusted people, taking the high ground, etc. As Tronster said "Any attacks were not 50 yards or even 25 yards away but up close in your face and fast, and a long gun is simply useless in that situation. Especially when you were most likely to be attacked leaving your home or coming and going from bartering flea markets. " -- and I agree with that. Chances are not good that if the SHTF, you (or I), won't home, or in a secure location with supplies, etc. We'll be at work, the store, the park, etc, and we'll need to get back to that location where those things are. I've never seen someone in MN OC (let alone CC - that'd be funny!) a rifle.

[jshuberg]

Season 3, Episode 12, maybe you can find the complete thing on YouTube.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tv/

There's nothing in a TV show that will make me believe that someone has found a way to violate the laws of physics. There are plenty of trick shot guys out there, who practice a single shot thousands of times until they make it look effortless. I guarantee that anyone holding a tight group at 100 yards with *any* pistol has practiced this a ton, and also likely adjusted their sights to account for bullet drop at this distance. Anyone claiming to shoot POA~=POI with normal sights out to 100 yards lied to you. You should punch him in the nose.

[xd ED]

Regardless of the caliber, barrel length, or muzzle velocity, a bullet begins to drop/ arc in trajectory as soon at it clears the muzzle; it's called gravity. The one exception would be if it was shot straight up, then it immediately begins to slow due to gravity and parasitic drag.

There are videos around with people hitting hitting human-sized, and smaller targets @ 300 yards with un-sighted handguns. What else they might be able to do is unknown, but the long shots are what they practiced to perfection.

[XDM45]

Season 3, Episode 12, maybe you can find the complete thing on YouTube.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tv/

There's nothing in a TV show that will make me believe that someone has found a way to violate the laws of physics. There are plenty of trick shot guys out there, who practice a single shot thousands of times until they make it look effortless. I guarantee that anyone holding a tight group at 100 yards with *any* pistol has practiced this a ton, and also likely adjusted their sights to account for bullet drop at this distance. Anyone claiming to shoot POA~=POI with normal sights out to 100 yards lied to you. You should punch him in the nose.

So it can be done, which is my point.

Now whether they did it with a stock rig or one like you suggested, I don't know. I guess you could write them and ask if you wanted the specifics, I just know it can be done, which is my point.

Now could he do it under stress? in the middle of a shopping mall with zombies and a naked spree shooter?
From sitting down in the can?
From on a rooftop while in a ballerina suit standing on one leg in a 50 mph wind on the 2nd Saturday of the last month of the year in a storm while whistling Dixie?
With a 9mm Glock?
With a .40 Cal Glock?
With a Colt .45ACP 1911?
With a blackpowder rifle?

I don't know, each one of those is a variable and each is a different story because each variable changes things.

NOTHING about guns is easy and EVERYTHING takes practice, so I think the fact he probably practiced with very specific conditions being met is a moot point because that's everything we do with guns. That's how we train. IF X happens, I do Y. If Y happens, I do Z, then we spin variables off of that, Xa Xb Xc Y1 Y2 Y3 Za Zb Zc etc.....at least the ones we can imagine and train to. Life never goes exactly to plan and we cannot plan and know every second of our day. We just don't know exactly what we'll do because every situation is unique. All we can do is practice for our best guess scenarios/situations, but that's it. Everything is a variable and a guess beyond that because there's no way for us to know exactly what will and won't happen each second in our life. For example, you want to talk to your boss and say something, you can best guess how he'll react, but you won't be able to predict the exact words he'll say, his tone, know his thoughts, etc. It's improbable to have such knowledge of every second, for every situation in our life. We practice everything based on our best guess and hypothetical scenarios. Another example of this is soldiers that train for war, but once they are there, it's nothing like what they thought it would be like,

So maybe he practiced it with very specific conditions, but he still did it. Would I want to bet my life on doing that, especially under stress? No, of course not, but that's not my point.... my point is it was done. It is possible. He proved it. We can also drill down into minutiae and say "Yeah, but....", but that again changes the situation and by that same argument we could also say that all of our SD training is worthless too since we don't know EXACTLY what the conditions/situation will be if and when we need to defend ourselves.

[sansooshooter]

So you do realize that a handgun is a poor replacement for a rifle when your dexterity and fine motor control goes out the window under stress right?

All the ammo in the world (unless you owned all of it and no one else had any) wouldn't do you any good if you can't hit what you're shooting at.

That's why you train....and train with multiple weapons.

There was a recent Handguns episode (TV show) where they showed a .45ACP going out 100 yards without much drop-off... now I'm not that good with a pistol yet, but it can be done. Chances are if something comes down hard and fast, it'll be up close and personal, and I'll have a pistol on me, not a rifle. I do need to get both a 10/22, AR-15, Shotgun and a .357 revolver, so 10/22 is next. I think for some situations, a rifle is the way to go, and vice versa for a pistol.

2 words . Trunk gun.
I have a SKS in my trunk and the chest rig loaded with stripper clips. Probably will never need it. But I also buy insurance .I know other guys that also have trunk rifles.

[shooter115]

I don't mean to pick on some of you, but in a real life SHTF (as in a full collapse) scenario, pretty damn unlikely you'll have to worry about your mortgage, going to work or what the gun laws on the books are. Now I'm not a hardcore prepper and maybe I should be, but we do have 2 plans for if things go south. One for digging in and one for bailing out. I can't even imagine a scenario where 3K rounds of .45 and 25K of .22 will be very useful with the exception of barter during a partial collapse. In which case food will be far more valuable. Ammo will only be valuable once most the food is gone and things get really ugly. And I'm sorry, but the idea of surviving enough skirmishes to fire 3K rounds through a single .45 pistol is laughable at best. The ugly truth is, if you have something, others are going to want to take it... and it's pretty easy for the guy with the rifle to take anything he wants from the guy with the pistol. Sorry if being a realist dampens your fantasy.

You guys that think a rifle is useless at ranges under 50 or 25 yards, really have no idea what you are talking about either. If you were to take 5 IPSC targets at a distance of 10' (or point blank even), I guarantee you I could engage each target with 2 rounds faster and more accurately with a rifle than most can with a pistol. Yes, a pistol is easier to manipulate from within a vehicle if you are driving, but I would want my partner in the passengers seat to have a rifle. If you think a carbine is too big to maneuver. Take your pistol and get into a standard firing position. Now measure the distance from your muzzle to your body, repeat this with a 16" barreled carbine. You'll find there's a very minimal difference.

Saying you can shoot a standard pistol caliber at 100 yards and there won't be any drop is also a fallacy You really need to go to the range more and spend less time getting ballistics off Joe Blow on the internet, TV or whatever. Yes I have been to 3-gun matches with pistol targets at around 100 yards. I did practice this before hand and knew I had to hold for the top of the head to connect on COM at that distance. If you know your holds you can make the hit's, but it would still be a whole lot easier and more effective with a rifle. Long range defense with a pistol is not a plan.....it's an "Oh ****" moment and likely to spell imminent death.

[XDM45]

I don't mean to pick on some of you, but in a real life SHTF (as in a full collapse) scenario, pretty damn unlikely you'll have to worry about your mortgage, going to work or what the gun laws on the books are. Now I'm not a hardcore prepper and maybe I should be, but we do have 2 plans for if things go south. One for digging in and one for bailing out. I can't even imagine a scenario where 3K rounds of .45 and 25K of .22 will be very useful with the exception of barter during a partial collapse. In which case food will be far more valuable. Ammo will only be valuable once most the food is gone and things get really ugly. And I'm sorry, but the idea of surviving enough skirmishes to fire 3K rounds through a single .45 pistol is laughable at best. The ugly truth is, if you have something, others are going to want to take it... and it's pretty easy for the guy with the rifle to take anything he wants from the guy with the pistol. Sorry if being a realist dampens your fantasy.

You guys that think a rifle is useless at ranges under 50 or 25 yards, really have no idea what you are talking about either. If you were to take 5 IPSC targets at a distance of 10' (or point blank even), I guarantee you I could engage each target with 2 rounds faster and more accurately with a rifle than most can with a pistol. Yes, a pistol is easier to manipulate from within a vehicle if you are driving, but I would want my partner in the passengers seat to have a rifle. If you think a carbine is too big to maneuver. Take your pistol and get into a standard firing position. Now measure the distance from your muzzle to your body, repeat this with a 16" barreled carbine. You'll find there's a very minimal difference.

Saying you can shoot a standard pistol caliber at 100 yards and there won't be any drop is also a fallacy You really need to go to the range more and spend less time getting ballistics off Joe Blow on the internet, TV or whatever. Yes I have been to 3-gun matches with pistol targets at around 100 yards. I did practice this before hand and knew I had to hold for the top of the head to connect on COM at that distance. If you know your holds you can make the hit's, but it would still be a whole lot easier and more effective with a rifle. Long range defense with a pistol is not a plan.....it's an "Oh ****" moment and likely to spell imminent death.

Yeah, long range with a pistol is an "oh S" moment, and yes, I doubt I'd go through 25k of .22LR and 3k of .45ACP, some could/would be used for barter, I do plan to get some rifles, and no disillusionment or fantasies that a pistol (or rifle) is a be all end all. In fact, some of the best weapons can be home made - 'nuff said. Food? Water? yeah, I have those too. That and other things as well, but I'm not listing it all anywhere for anyone.

"Take your pistol and get into a standard firing position. Now measure the distance from your muzzle to your body, repeat this with a 16" barreled carbine. You'll find there's a very minimal difference."

Assuming that you will always use a pistol like that, sure. Sometimes the target is mere feet away and you may want to draw close to your hip, brace, fire as you back up, then outstretch to the "normal" position. You are more flexible with a pistol than a rifle in that case; however both have their pros and cons (pistols and rifles).

[sansooshooter]

[Assuming that you will always use a pistol like that, sure. Sometimes the target is mere feet away and you may want to draw close to your hip, brace, fire as you back up, then outstretch to the "normal" position. You are more flexible with a pistol than a rifle in that case; however both have their pros and cons (pistols and rifles).[/quote]

If I am that close to somebody and they try to draw . I will attempt to stuff them , Pin their hand to their side in the act of reaching for the weapon.
Learned that technik from a convict', It works and is damn hard to stop form happening. Point is you better have enough tools.
You can fire a rifle from your hip . Also a rifle is a damn sight better for hand to hand than a pistol. Learn the basics of rifle bayonet fighting.
It works well with a stout stick.
A trained knifer is dangerous as hell at bad breath distance. These are some things to work on during a ammo shortage.
Can't shoot , Learn a new skill in some other area of fighting.