Minnesota Militia(s)?

[scarletvw]

[bensdad]

This whole post was a childish, defensive attack against an individual who brought a different idea to the table. Rather than address Milgram, Stanford, Katrina, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Kent State, Bonus Army, etc. etc. etc. you tried to slaughter the character of someone who pretty much just brought ideas to the table. Nice play. Way to represent. I'll just end by saying that, while the vast majority of our service men and women are honorable folk, there is apparently a strong contingent of military/LE personnel who will enjoy the door-to-door process (see the aforementioned list).

I've just begun to marginalizing your wimpy ass

idiots like you can spout BS like this.

Go back to the basement and continue your paranoid plans

[ktech]

I would point out that all of the above-listed examples were individuals who did not know each other in any way - I'd argue that the local National Guard is much less likely to "just follow orders" because they know the community.

Also, on an anecdotal note, I know several guard members who are determined to not follow unconstitutional orders... for what it's worth.

However, according to MN law, militias (in the sense you're describing) are illegal. That law may be argued to be unconstitutional, but uh, if you want to be a test case - go for it.

[Username000]

I would point out that all of the above-listed examples were individuals who did not know each other in any way - I'd argue that the local National Guard is much less likely to "just follow orders" because they know the community.

Also, on an anecdotal note, I know several guard members who are determined to not follow unconstitutional orders... for what it's worth.

However, according to MN law, militias (in the sense you're describing) are illegal. That law may be argued to be unconstitutional, but uh, if you want to be a test case - go for it.

Who says they'd need to know?

Anyways, I know plenty of LEOs and I don't know a single one who would enforce this pathetic statute.

[XDM45]

I would point out that all of the above-listed examples were individuals who did not know each other in any way - I'd argue that the local National Guard is much less likely to "just follow orders" because they know the community.

Also, on an anecdotal note, I know several guard members who are determined to not follow unconstitutional orders... for what it's worth.

However, according to MN law, militias (in the sense you're describing) are illegal. That law may be argued to be unconstitutional, but uh, if you want to be a test case - go for it.

I'm glad there are those out individuals in this world who will think and act for themselves; and perhaps even find other like-minded individuals and work together as a group; however, know that most people will follow orders, stay the course, the status quo, respect "authority", etc, especially in MN where most don't want to rock the boat, non-confrontational, passive-aggressive, etc. We have the aforementioned Milgram and Stanford experiments, along with the Bystander Effect, and tons of other research, studies, etc etc etc which all play into this same line of thinking, so it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone how most people will react.

As for militias being unconstitutional, things are being done every day which are unconstitutional, so it's a matter of who, what, where, when, and why, which makes the difference. Honestly, if someone is going door-to-door to do the unconstitutional act of taking weapons from the people; the last thing to worry about is if forming a militia is also unconstitutional. I don't think we are on the brink of revolution, and I think we can work within the system to a point; it's when and if that system fails completely or is no longer sitting upon a precipice and it moves passed a point of no return that other things may happen.

[peckerhead]

I can see that several of you have a rather large disconnect between your opinion and reality when it comes to your fellow citizens. So now the members of the Minnesota National Guard are Obama zombies who will follow orders blindly "to save their own asses" - from whom, I would ask?

Collector said:
"Thanks for marginalizing and demonizing me just because I believe in the right for we regular folks to organize a militia, just in case the National Guard turns out to be a pawn for the establishment."

Sounds like you are the one who is crying, and I've just begun to marginalizing your wimpy ass if you continue to insult your fellow Minnesotans who have pledged to uphold the constitution -- just so idiots like you can spout BS like this.

Go back to the basement and continue your paranoid plans to survive your fantasy "Red Dawn" scenarios. Let me know when you and your buddies are out mastering your small unit tactics for your "militia" -- that would be a real hoot to watch.

The only way a local militia could have an impact against any enemy of the citizens of Minnesota is if its ranks are filled with veterans and guardsmen.

I appreciate the fact that you're a patriotic guy. But history does support my opinion. It doesn't matter who's in the White House.
I'm sure there were guys who felt just like you did before they were called to N.O. during the aftermath of Katrina, but look at what happened there. The police, sheriffs office, and the National Guard all took turns gleefully stomping the constitutional rights of the citizenry.
We already have documented instances of the military being used against US citizens domestically, so you're really arguing a moot point (remember the tanks at Waco?). Its happened before, and it will happen again.
You'll either follow the order, or get a bullet to the head or ten years in Leavenworth for your trouble. The US military will never rise up against the government.

[XDM45]

I can see that several of you have a rather large disconnect between your opinion and reality when it comes to your fellow citizens. So now the members of the Minnesota National Guard are Obama zombies who will follow orders blindly "to save their own asses" - from whom, I would ask?

Collector said:
"Thanks for marginalizing and demonizing me just because I believe in the right for we regular folks to organize a militia, just in case the National Guard turns out to be a pawn for the establishment."

Sounds like you are the one who is crying, and I've just begun to marginalizing your wimpy ass if you continue to insult your fellow Minnesotans who have pledged to uphold the constitution -- just so idiots like you can spout BS like this.

Go back to the basement and continue your paranoid plans to survive your fantasy "Red Dawn" scenarios. Let me know when you and your buddies are out mastering your small unit tactics for your "militia" -- that would be a real hoot to watch.

The only way a local militia could have an impact against any enemy of the citizens of Minnesota is if its ranks are filled with veterans and guardsmen.

I appreciate the fact that you're a patriotic guy. But history does support my opinion. It doesn't matter who's in the White House.
I'm sure there were guys who felt just like you did before they were called to N.O. during the aftermath of Katrina, but look at what happened there. The police, sheriffs office, and the National Guard all took turns gleefully stomping the constitutional rights of the citizenry.

We already have documented instances of the military being used against US citizens domestically, so you're really arguing a moot point (remember the tanks at Waco?). Its happened before, and it will happen again.
You'll either follow the order, or get a bullet to the head or ten years in Leavenworth for your trouble. The US military will never rise up against the government.

I guess it boils down to what someone values more, freedom and life, or their existence incarnate.

If you wish to exist, you'll toe the line and follow the orders, do whatever it takes to survive at any cost except rising up against those who are ruling over you, oppressing you, your authority figures, etc.

If you value your freedom and life, you'll do whatever it takes to keep that too. To me, life is not something I have, it is something I am whether I exist incarnate or not. Freedom is something I have while incarnate and it's something I'm not going to lose my freedom while incarnate. Yes, I've lost some freedoms, we all have lost it via laws which do not give rights and freedoms, only restrict, limit or remove them. This is especially so after 9/11; so if and when I have to "show my papers", move to a camp, give up my guns, my freedom of thought, movement within the US, etc, that's what I won't tolerate. That's what I refuse to give up and lose.

[Mnwhiskeyman]

the question is, do you feel lucky?
i am sure there are groups. Many i am sure...

[Collector1337420]

I can see that several of you have a rather large disconnect between your opinion and reality when it comes to your fellow citizens. So now the members of the Minnesota National Guard are Obama zombies who will follow orders blindly "to save their own asses" - from whom, I would ask?

Collector said:
"Thanks for marginalizing and demonizing me just because I believe in the right for we regular folks to organize a militia, just in case the National Guard turns out to be a pawn for the establishment."

Sounds like you are the one who is crying, and I've just begun to marginalizing your wimpy ass if you continue to insult your fellow Minnesotans who have pledged to uphold the constitution -- just so idiots like you can spout BS like this.

Go back to the basement and continue your paranoid plans to survive your fantasy "Red Dawn" scenarios. Let me know when you and your buddies are out mastering your small unit tactics for your "militia" -- that would be a real hoot to watch.

The only way a local militia could have an impact against any enemy of the citizens of Minnesota is if its ranks are filled with veterans and guardsmen.

Do you have anything of substance to offer or just personal attacks?

I said the National Guard are "Obama zombies?" When did I say that? Perhaps you could direct me to where I posted that.

Pretty sure I said something along the lines of, "Most people will follow orders." Which is backed up by very famous psychological research.

[ktech]

As for militias being unconstitutional, things are being done every day which are unconstitutional, so it's a matter of who, what, where, when, and why, which makes the difference.

I didn't say they were unconstitutional - I said the MN law against them is arguably unconstitutional.

[AFTERMATH]

In trying to come up with a witty line of my own to post here, I suddenly realized that I was on this thread way too long...
Oh, crap! Here come the helicopters!

... but not long enough to come up with something witty.

That's the worst part.

[minnhawk]

I didn't realize guardsmen and veterans were so isolated from their fellow Minnesotans --and I didn't realize so many who post here have no connection/understanding of the guardsman and veterans who have served them. I am greatly saddened by this revelation.

I take back everything I said, because there is no convincing you that members of the Minnesota National Guard and veterans are the only hope we have if there is a need to keep this state free. I worry that some of you think of guardsmen as "zombies" by your responses, that we would blindly follow orders from the President/Washington; if you don't know your neighbors or fellow employees in the Guard or veterans, it makes more sense that you would believe that. You are wrong, famous psychological tests or not. You don't know the Guard, its chain of command, its brotherhood.

There isn't an officer in the Red Bulls who would "put a bullet" in the head of one of his soldiers for not following orders. He (she) knows better than to issue an order that wouldn't be followed. That's basic leadership.

Guardsmen were not involved at Waco or Ruby Ridge, and no guardsmen that I know of participated in disarming citizens in New Orleans, although guardsmen from multiple states helped restore law and order when the New Orleans police department was too corrupt and too chicken to do the job. Guardsmen did not assault Hooverville and the Bonus Army; that was Douglas MacArthur and regular army troops.

If you want to form up your own militia, go ahead. Good luck. Sorry you have severe trust issues with your fellow Minnesotans who have combat experience, have the keys to the armories, and know a little something about making some other dumb bastard die for his country (or his beliefs).

[Snowgun]

All i know is that the adherence to ideals gets a pretty big damper put on it once the first person gets shot in the face for not following orders. Its not politics, its human nature.

[ktech]

I prefer to expect the best but be prepared for the worst.

I suggest you do whatever that means for you.

[Collector1337420]

I didn't realize guardsmen and veterans were so isolated from their fellow Minnesotans --and I didn't realize so many who post here have no connection/understanding of the guardsman and veterans who have served them. I am greatly saddened by this revelation.

I take back everything I said, because there is no convincing you that members of the Minnesota National Guard and veterans are the only hope we have if there is a need to keep this state free. I worry that some of you think of guardsmen as "zombies" by your responses, that we would blindly follow orders from the President/Washington; if you don't know your neighbors or fellow employees in the Guard or veterans, it makes more sense that you would believe that. You are wrong, famous psychological tests or not. You don't know the Guard, its chain of command, its brotherhood.

There isn't an officer in the Red Bulls who would "put a bullet" in the head of one of his soldiers for not following orders. He (she) knows better than to issue an order that wouldn't be followed. That's basic leadership.

Guardsmen were not involved at Waco or Ruby Ridge, and no guardsmen that I know of participated in disarming citizens in New Orleans, although guardsmen from multiple states helped restore law and order when the New Orleans police department was too corrupt and too chicken to do the job. Guardsmen did not assault Hooverville and the Bonus Army; that was Douglas MacArthur and regular army troops.

If you want to form up your own militia, go ahead. Good luck. Sorry you have severe trust issues with your fellow Minnesotans who have combat experience, have the keys to the armories, and know a little something about making some other dumb bastard die for his country (or his beliefs).

You've made several errors in thinking.

The first is making the assumption that "so many who post here have no connection/understanding" of those who've served. I can only speak for myself, but you have absolutely no idea who I know or don't know, so to make such a claim is absurd. You also seem to want to speak for every vet/guardsman as if they all have uniform opinions. Which is also absurd.

So, the National Guard is really our "only hope?" Seriously? I think you're giving yourself a little bit too much credit, whilst at the same time, giving everyone else no credit. Absolutist statements like that are pretty ridiculous.

No one here except you has referred to the National Guard as "zombies." I'm glad you are so confident that the NG wouldn't blindly follow orders, however, I don't really think it's fair for you to claim you can predict the future and know how every single guardsmen will act when they're given orders to confiscate or whatever. Highly regarded scientific research has found that most people will just follow orders. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to believe science over your feelings.

I do not think the "severe trust issues" as you call it, are with fellow Minnesotans, but with government in general.