An introduction to the Maricopa Sheriff's Dept.

[phorvick]

So, about 9:15 this morning, I get a call from the Maricopa Sheriff's Department...from a deputy apparently outside our home. He said that "a neighbor" called them because they heard gunshots from inside the house. (I later found out that several of the officers were outside with guns pointed at the house).

The deputy asked if everything is all right, and I said "yes". He then asked if I would come out, I did, and he asked if he could come inside. At this point I am seeing two officers. When those two came in, about 6 more followed (guns holstered at this point). We chatted a few moments, and he asked if they could just check the house. I normally might have said "not without a warrant", but had no issue with them doing that, so I said "ok". After about 10 more minutes, they left. They were 100% professional and courteous the entire time. Heck, I even emailed the department to compliment them on their conduct.

Interesting start of the day.

Oh, at the same time as the call from the deputy came, my wife got a call from a neighbor wondering "what is going on? There are police outside your house with guns drawn!"

Yup, interesting.

[PhilaBOR]

Were there gunshots from within the house????

[FJ540]

Someone's got an "anti" neighbor.

[phorvick]

Were there gunshots from within the house????

Uh, no. Nor from the garage, nor the yard. In fact, we heard -0- noise at all in the morning.

[Ron Burgundy]

I'm not a cop but is that standard, or even remotely acceptable, practice to draw your service weapon and point it at a house where someone (not a police officer) "heard" gunshots?

I am grateful for the police and the sacrifices they (and their families) make on the public's behalf but that seems awfully cavalier and unsafe.

Sounds like you had an interesting morning!


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[Squib Joe]

You may have been a victim of a random SWATting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting

[goett047]

I would have hung up the phone and called Saul, or at the very least a lawyer

[ex-LT]

Someone's got an "anti" neighbor.

Doesn't Heffay live in Sheriff Joe's jurisdiction?
Just sayin'

[Thunderjohn]

I'm not a cop but is that standard, or even remotely acceptable, practice to draw your service weapon and point it at a house where someone (not a police officer) "heard" gunshots?
I would hope so.

I am grateful for the police and the sacrifices they (and their families) make on the public's behalf but that seems awfully cavalier and unsafe.
Unsafe for the officers if they aren't ready should there be an actual shooter.

Sounds like you had an interesting morning!


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[PaperPuncher]

That sounds like you woke up from a dream only to live out a bad dream. I am VERY happy it all turned out ok and that you were completely level headed about the whole scenario! You were a wise man and I give you a lot of credit. I am not sure all of us could or would have, handled it the same...but GOOD job!

[Ron Burgundy]

"Unsafe for the officers if they aren't ready should there be an actual shooter."

Maybe I'm misreading your reply, Thunderjohn, but it sounds like you are favoring safety of the officers (guns drawn, pointed at the house) over safety of the occupants inside the house, which now are facing the business end of duty weapons.

I'm not sure what the appropriate response is. The OP noting that guns were pointed at his house just struck me as concerning. Of course, I also get agitated when I'm swept by employees or customers at the gun counter.

I guess it doesn't really matter since the OP didn't care. Glad you made it through this ordeal!


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[phorvick]

Since I posted the basic outline of this event, I have received two emails from persons that claim to be members of this Forum. One had legitimate questions regarding my thinking process that led me to let them into our home without a warrant, and then to search the home, again without a warrant. Fair questions.

The other email was arrogant and asshattery, stating that “no way in hell would I ever allow cops into my home without a warrant.” So, for both of the emailers, I am happy to review my thoughts…keeping in mind, I had maybe 1-2 minutes to decide what to do.

First, I am not at all a fan of warrantless entry or search. In fact, anyone who has ever taken a class with me knows that I preach the mantra…”get a warrant.” But, I am not a savant to that belief. Here is what I tell people:

1. When making a decision to allow entry, it is important to know the landscape. In my situation, the Maricopa County Sheriff Office is run by “Sheriff Joe”; and, if you do not know who he is, then Google is your friend. I cannot comment on how his office is perceived in general, but among retirees and the retirement communities, he is very well liked and supported. In fact, the county has a “Posse”…a group of volunteers that are trained to assist deputies in many mundane tasks, and a handful that are actually armed while on their duty. These Posse members are our friends and neighbors. I don’t think I can drive anywhere in Sun City West without seeing at least one Sheriff’s vehicle patrolling the community. So, the landscape from my perspective was positive.

2. Know the law. How many of you know the general law of what an officer is permitted to do when a “shots fired” call comes in?? I suspect the instructors here know that before entry into a residence without a warrant is permissible, there must be some type of exigent circumstances, as in general a warrant would be required. Warrants are generally issued upon “probable cause” that a crime has been committed; is in the process of being committed; or will be committed if there is a delay. Probable cause is more than mere suspicion, hunch or gut feeling. It must be based upon specific facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe the above. Fact based. There is an emergency exception, and that occurs when there is a factual based belief that someone may be or will be hurt.

In this situation, a call, not fully anonymous (stated they were a neighbor) came to the department that shots were fired in this residence. Clearly, the officers have a duty to investigate.

There have been several court cases that seem to suggest that a warrantless entry may be permissible, but there are also cases that say if the call is anonymous, and upon initial observation there is no more evidence than the call, then a warrant is required. The cases that suggest a warrantless entry is allowed usually have some other evidence: noise from the inside; visual evidence through a window; shell casings on the driveway; blood on a door etc. None of that existed. Yet, this was not a truly anonymous call. The lines were, in my mind, blurred.

When the officer asked if I would come out of the house, I concluded that they believed that warrantless entry was not permitted; yet, they do have a duty to investigate. When they asked for permission to enter, I believed then and now, that had I refused, a warrant would issue, and the situation just drag on further, with more negativity towards me than was in play at that time.

When I allowed them entry, they have the absolute right to do a visual sweep, again looking for evidence in “plain view” that might suggest a crime, or, of course, for injured persons. Because we had literally just begun unpacking many items from Minnesota, several gun cases were in plain view. To their credit, they did not ask about them. Had they asked to see the insides, then I would have said “no”, and I suspect that the end result would have been the same. Without other evidence of a crime, I doubt a warrant would issue.

A person cannot be 100% in one mindset or another. I have had an instance before when I refused a search of my car. It ended ok, but did not go well at the time. When dealing with professional officers that know their limitations, and present themselves in a courteous manner, not aggressive, not threatening, I do not believe that my adamantly protecting my rights is necessary to resolve a situation. And, that is the goal...a peaceful resolution that has no after effects.

Oh, and to that asshat that suggested that anyone that allows entry and search without a warrant is a fool…well, you were not there, and I suspect you do not know the law. Or said differently, go commit an impossible physical act with yourself.

Also, please note that the above is not legal advice, nor is it the be-all or end-all of similar discussions. It just recaps what my thoughts were at the time.

Finally, I agree that there is a difficult line to draw regarding officers outside your home, guns pointed at the door, with the only "evidence" being that phone call. Yet, from their perspective, this may have been a "domestic" event, and they are potentially very dangerous for officers. I never actually saw the guns pointed; our neighbor across the street did. Maybe had I seen them I would not be as laid back about that action, but....I am not sure where the line is to be drawn. It is always easy to draw a line after the fact; in this case, there was no need, because the officers were professional in everything they did. Interestingly, I did talk to a representative of the MCSO. They said that from their perspective the officers did nothing wrong, assuming that their fingers were off the trigger. He asked if that was the case. I told him that I did not know. He said he would investigate, and...I believe that will happen. He told me that in any incident where guns were drawn, a report is filed, and he will track it down.

I also stopped in at the Posse office in Sun City West. I told them the same thing I told the MCSO, and that is that I appreciated their concern and professionalism, and that I had no issues with how they conducted themselves, as we all have the same goal....golfing safely later that day!

[Ironbear]

Without actually knowing your neighbors, I would suggest that there could have been some observational fuzziness between, "guns drawn" and "guns drawn and pointed".

[Holland&Holland]

....golfing safely later that day!

You had me until this sentence. Now you just look plain crazy




Seriously though, good write up. Glad it all turned out good for you.

[phorvick]

....golfing safely later that day!

You had me until this sentence. Now you just look plain crazy




Seriously though, good write up. Glad it all turned out good for you.

Oh, I know I look crazy when golfing. Look up definition of "hack".

One other interesting bit. When the call came to me from the MCSO, my cell phone caller ID said "BLOCKED". Normally, I would guess 99.9% of the time, I would not answer such a call as I would assume it was some sales or ad pitch. Don't know why I answered this one.