Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby JTapper on Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:30 pm

xd ED wrote:Re FL fingerprinting. I can't recall the specifics , but they are strict in their requirements, which may not be the same as what's practiced locally. Read / follow their instructions.


You should use THEIR card. Go on the FL Dept. of Ag site, request one for free.

To do one in Dakota County:

Go to the Sheriff's office in Hastings, pay $10 to a jail commissary machine and get a receipt. Bring $10 CASH.
Take that receipt over to the courthouse, enter and go to the right, to "Booking". They'll take your receipt for the $10, your ID, and your BLANK fingerprint card. DO NOT FILL IT OUT AHEAD OF TIME.

They'll scan your prints, print your card, and you're on your way. They'll even give your kid a sucker and a sticker.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby ttousi on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:30 pm

Again, many instructors have the packages available which have the cards/app etc.
I'm in st Paul and could hand a packet off if it works for anyone in need
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby cobb on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:00 am

ttousi wrote:Again, many instructors have the packages available which have the cards/app etc.
I'm in st Paul and could hand a packet off if it works for anyone in need

Same here in Mankato, have both AZ and FL packets available in class.
To hand off later, might be easier to just go to the AZ or FL web site and request, they will have it delivered to your door. ;)
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby Spartan on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:48 am

I did AZ last year ... it was pretty simple ... I was in Rural MN stopped by a jail ...they happily did the fingerprints.... served me coffee while I waited and made very cordial conversation about deer and pheasant hunting ......
I sent my paper work to AZ about February 1st and got my permit by March 1st ..... they said it would be longer .... no issue... its a pretty card ... nicer than MN
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby Series 70 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:33 am

Hennepin County offers fingerprint services using a Live Scan machine. They charge $15 if you have your own card, $1 extra for their card. I brought the card I was sent in the FL application packet to the Hennepin County court/jail building on 5th Street and 4th Ave.

The prints looked fine to me, but FL did not like them. I'll see if I kept the letter they sent; they were saying the prints were kicked-back by whatever agency was actually conducting the search.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby 911scanner on Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:03 pm

The live scan machines create a computer file, correct?

What's to say that they don't keep a copy of your prints? I don't believe that I am required to have my prints on file at the local sheriff. but I'll bet $20 they would be kept on file anyway.

Just sayin'....
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby LarryFlew on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:55 pm

They don't keep the file according to deputy that did mine. Against the law in MN according to her. Besides, even if they did its the only way to get your FL permit as it has to be done by a police organization to meet their requirements.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby aviator on Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:01 am

I have gotten the Florida non-resident permit at least twice now and had the fingerprint card kicked back using the electronic procedure. So, now I always have them take them the old fashioned way, with an ink pad. Works every time if you can find someone that will still even do it that way. I think you must use the fingerprint card provided by Florida as sometimes the local sheriffs departments machine will imprint text in an area that it shouldn't. One last thing, keep in mind North Dakota no longer recognizes the Florida non resident permits held by Minnesotans. So, I had to get a Utah permit.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby xd ED on Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:35 am

aviator wrote:I have gotten the Florida non-resident permit at least twice now and had the fingerprint card kicked back using the electronic procedure. So, now I always have them take them the old fashioned way, with an ink pad. Works every time if you can find someone that will still even do it that way. I think you must use the fingerprint card provided by Florida as sometimes the local sheriffs departments machine will imprint text in an area that it shouldn't. One last thing, keep in mind North Dakota no longer recognizes the Florida non resident permits held by Minnesotans. So, I had to get a Utah permit.

Re: NoDak - It's been discussed several times elsewhere, but it appears currently a MN resident cannot legally carry in NoDak, regardless of permits held.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby cobb on Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:03 am

xd ED wrote: Re: NoDak - It's been discussed several times elsewhere, but it appears currently a MN resident cannot legally carry in NoDak, regardless of permits held.

I would like to see this North Dakota standard of not recognizing any permit held by a Minnesota resident. If you are a Minnesota resident and have a current North Dakota nonresident carry permit, as of August 2013 North Dakota will no longer recognize that North Dakota permit that is issued to a Minnesota resident. But I cannot find anything on North Dakota not recognizing a Utah, Arizona, or Florida held by a Minnesota resident. If true, I sure would like to know and would like to see the North Dakota announcement or posting of this, I have looked and have not found.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby george on Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:26 am

911scanner wrote:The live scan machines create a computer file, correct?

What's to say that they don't keep a copy of your prints? I don't believe that I am required to have my prints on file at the local sheriff. but I'll bet $20 they would be kept on file anyway.

Just sayin'....

Yes they do. I had mine done and they were rejected by FL. I went back to re- do and they jest looked them up and re- printed them and they were accepted, same prints.
I asked about the kept prints and they explained that they are held in the machine but are not forwarded to the data bank. When the memory of non forwarded data fills the oldest are automatically deleted to make room for the new so
in a given amount of time they are not retrievable.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby xd ED on Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:45 am

cobb wrote:
xd ED wrote: Re: NoDak - It's been discussed several times elsewhere, but it appears currently a MN resident cannot legally carry in NoDak, regardless of permits held.

I would like to see this North Dakota standard of not recognizing any permit held by a Minnesota resident. If you are a Minnesota resident and have a current North Dakota nonresident carry permit, as of August 2013 North Dakota will no longer recognize that North Dakota permit that is issued to a Minnesota resident. But I cannot find anything on North Dakota not recognizing a Utah, Arizona, or Florida held by a Minnesota resident. If true, I sure would like to know and would like to see the North Dakota announcement or posting of this, I have looked and have not found.


This issue is NoDak not allowing carry by anyone from a state that doesn't recognize NoDak's permit to carry, regardless of what non-res permits are held.

A couple of items:

First-

Here a my recent (26 Aug. 2013) correspondence with the NoDak AG.
It is a non-answer answer, which tells us nothing, other than they probably aren't confident in knowing and understanding their own law:
When I made this request for clarification, I was not aware of the published document quoted below (neither was the respondent I suspect, given the reply I received)

Dear Attorney General.

There is concern and confusion among Minnesota firearm owners with regard to the recent changes in North Dakota law permitting the carry of firearms by non-residents.
While it is clear that a Minnesota resident can not currently acquire a North Dakota handgun carry permit, the question remains:
Can a Minnesota resident carry a handgun in North Dakota if that resident is in possession of a permit from a state with which North Dakota recognizes reciprocity; i.e: Florida or Arizona?
Asked another way:
Does a non-resident need a North Dakota permit, or, will a non-resident permit from a state observing North Dakota reciprocity suffice?
Thank you in advance for the clarification.

Regards,

xd ED
Saint Paul, Minnesota


info-Atto​rney General (ndag@nd.gov)Add to contacts 7:35 AM
To: xd ED
Office of Attorney General

Please refer to the website: http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/CW.htm. This website contains information on which states have reciprocity with North Dakota and those state licenses/permits that North Dakota does recognize to legally allow carrying of a concealed weapon.

I hope this information is helpful.

Liz Brocker, PIO
ND Office of Attorney General
600 E. Boulevard Ave #125
Bismarck ND 58505





From the above cited link:

RECIPROCITY FOR ND CLASS 1 LICENSE HOLDERS

Alabama ▲ Iowa Nevada Texas
Alaska ▲ Kansas New Hampshire ▀ Utah
Arizona Kentucky New Mexico ▲ Vermont 1
Arkansas Louisiana North Carolina Virginia
Colorado ▀ Maine ▀ ▲ Ohio Washington
Delaware Michigan ▀ ▲ Oklahoma West Virginia
Florida ▀ Mississippi Pennsylvania Wisconsin
Georgia ▲ Missouri South Carolina ▀ ▲ Wyoming
Idaho Montana South Dakota
Indiana Nebraska ▲ Tennessee


RECIPROCITY FOR ND CLASS 2 LICENSE HOLDERS

Alabama ▲ Idaho New Hampshire ▀ ▲ Vermont 1
Alaska Iowa North Carolina ▲ Wyoming ▲
Colorado ▀ ▲ Kentucky Oklahoma
Delaware Michigan ▀ ▲ South Dakota
Florida ▀ ▲ Missouri Texas
Georgia ▲ Montana Utah[/quote]

It appears to contradict the statute which has a link on the same page :
http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t62-1c04.pdf?20140215091729

62.1-04-03.1. Reciprocity.
A person who has a valid license issued by another state to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in that state and whose state grants to residents of this state the right to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon without requiring a separate license to carry a
Page No. 3
concealed firearm or dangerous weapon issued by that state may carry, subject to the provisions of this state's law, a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in this state, and the other state's license is valid in this state.


Second -

Here is what I believe to be relevant text published by the NoDak AG:
NEW CONCEALED WEAPON LAWS TAKE EFFECT AUGUST 1, 2013

Bold and highlighted text are my emphasis

July 31, 2013
NEW CONCEALED WEAPON LAWS TAKE EFFECT AUGUST 1, 2013
BISMARCK, ND – The Legislature passed several bills that change the weapons and concealed weapons laws and as a result, beginning tomorrow, August 1, 2013, applicants for North Dakota’s concealed weapons licenses will notice several new procedures, announced Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem.
The application process has been streamlined and applications now will be mailed directly to the BCI instead of being submitted to the local law enforcement agencies. Other changes include:
• The application form has been shortened and can be downloaded and completed from the concealed weapons license page of the Attorney General’s website (http://www.ag.nd.gov).
• Additional fingerprint-based federal record and NICs checks will be conducted on all new and renewing applicants. The extra fees charged by the FBI for the federal record checks are included in the application processing fee, which increases from $45 to $60.
Non-ND residents must have a valid concealed weapon license from their home state, which state must have reciprocity with North Dakota. The home state is determined by the driver’s license
• For a Class 1 license, the “look back” disqualifying time period for alcohol-related offenses is now limited to 10 years.
• Defense sprays and stun guns (but not Tasers) can be carried concealed without a concealed weapon license.
“The new comprehensive federal criminal record and mental health record check requirements have helped us keep reciprocity for Class 1 license holders with thirty-six states. The streamlined application process will be faster and easier for all applicants,” said Stenehjem.
New and renewal applications started after today must be submitted using the new form and procedures and the new $60 fee. The BCI will process current application forms that are delivered to local law enforcement today. The green forms are invalid beginning August 1. Applications not delivered to law enforcement today fall under the new laws, requiring the new form and processing fee. Applicants who completed testing in July will need to download and complete a new application form and mail both the new form and the old form (with the testing information) to the BCI, along with the $60 fee.
There are currently 27,219 North Dakota concealed weapons license holders.
Detailed information about the law changes, the new online application process, and a list of certified test administrators, is available online from the Attorney General’s website, at http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/CW.htm.
###


On the weight of the highlighted portion, and the statute I don't see a MN resident as being able to legally carry in NoDak.

But as always:
Remember what you paid for this advice, and IANAL.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby cobb on Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:56 am

I see what you are saying, but I don't read it that way.

The large black text bold added by me.
July 31, 2013
NEW CONCEALED WEAPON LAWS TAKE EFFECT AUGUST 1, 2013
BISMARCK, ND – The Legislature passed several bills that change the weapons and concealed weapons laws and as a result, beginning tomorrow, August 1, 2013, applicants for North Dakota’s concealed weapons licenses will notice several new procedures, announced Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem.
The application process has been streamlined and applications now will be mailed directly to the BCI instead of being submitted to the local law enforcement agencies. Other changes include:
• The application form has been shortened and can be downloaded and completed from the concealed weapons license page of the Attorney General’s website (http://www.ag.nd.gov).
• Additional fingerprint-based federal record and NICs checks will be conducted on all new and renewing applicants. The extra fees charged by the FBI for the federal record checks are included in the application processing fee, which increases from $45 to $60.
Non-ND residents must have a valid concealed weapon license from their home state, which state must have reciprocity with North Dakota. The home state is determined by the driver’s license
• For a Class 1 license, the “look back” disqualifying time period for alcohol-related offenses is now limited to 10 years.
• Defense sprays and stun guns (but not Tasers) can be carried concealed without a concealed weapon license.
“The new comprehensive federal criminal record and mental health record check requirements have helped us keep reciprocity for Class 1 license holders with thirty-six states. The streamlined application process will be faster and easier for all applicants,” said Stenehjem.
New and renewal applications started after today must be submitted using the new form and procedures and the new $60 fee. The BCI will process current application forms that are delivered to local law enforcement today. The green forms are invalid beginning August 1. Applications not delivered to law enforcement today fall under the new laws, requiring the new form and processing fee. Applicants who completed testing in July will need to download and complete a new application form and mail both the new form and the old form (with the testing information) to the BCI, along with the $60 fee.
There are currently 27,219 North Dakota concealed weapons license holders.
Detailed information about the law changes, the new online application process, and a list of certified test administrators, is available online from the Attorney General’s website, at http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/CW.htm


As mentioned earlier, North Dakota nonresident permits issued to Minnesota residences are no longer valid after August 2013 because Minnesota does not have recognition of North Dakota carry permits. I do see in the above change in the ND application requirements that a Minnesota resident could not receive a ND nonresident carry permit after August 2013. I do not see where the above states that North Dakota will not recognize a Utah, Arizona or Florida permit carried by a Minnesota resident, just that North Dakota will not issue a nonresident permit to a Minnesota resident.

Honestly, I still do not see that ND does not recognize a UT, AZ or FL permit carried by a Minnesota resident.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby xd ED on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:06 am

Look at it this way:

North Dakota adresses concealed weapons through its statute CHAPTER 62.1-04 CONCEALED WEAPONS
I'm selecting various text from that document, but I don't believe I'm omitting or ignoring anything relevant.

62.1-04-02. Carrying concealed firearms or dangerous weapons prohibited.
An individual, other than a law enforcement officer, may not carry any firearm or dangerous weapon concealed unless the individual is licensed to do so or exempted under this chapter…

The following are the only two exemptions I see as they relate to residency. A North Dakota resident can get a North Dakota permit providing they can prove residency in North Dakota. A non-resident is allowed an exemption if they prove they are a resident of a state that which reciprocates with North Dakota. Neither of these two conditions can be met by any Minnesota resident.

(Underlined emphasis mine)

62.1-04-03. b.
The applicant can demonstrate that the applicant is a resident of this state by
providing a copy of a valid driver's license or state-issued identification card from this state that establishes personal identification through photographic means and shows the applicant's name associated with a valid residential street address in this state or the applicant possesses a valid driver's license from the applicant's state of residence that establishes personal identification through photographic means and shows the applicant's name associated with a valid residential street address and a valid concealed weapons license from the applicant's state of residence, which state has reciprocity with this state under section 62.1-04-03.1;

To me this exemption cannot include a Minnesota resident in any way, shape, or form, as requires residency in a state that has reciprocity. No exemption is made for any other states' permits.


62.1-04-03.1. Reciprocity.
A person who has a valid license issued by another state to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in that state and whose state grants to residents of this state the right to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon without requiring a separate licenseto carry a
(Page No. 3)
concealed firearm or dangerous weapon issued by that state may carry, subject to the provisions of this state's law, a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in this state, and the other state's license is valid in this state.


As Minnesota makes no allowance for a North Dakota resident to carry in Minnesota, this exemption cannot apply to a Minnesota resident.
I find no provisions that would allow a Minnesota resident to carry with any non-resident permit i.e. Arizona, Forida, or Utah.


If this discussion continues, you might consider moving this to a different thread, as it has drifted significantly from the OP.
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Re: Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

Postby cobb on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:23 am

Please read what you have posted/quoted which keep referring to applicant, which is referring to the applicant's requirement when applying for a ND nonresident permit, which a MN resident does not meet.
xd ED wrote:I find no provisions that would allow a Minnesota resident to carry with any non-resident permit i.e. Arizona, Forida, or Utah.

I agree, can be kinda hard to find things that may not exist.
But you can find that ND recognizes UT, AZ and FL permit to carry and no provisions, exceptions or exemptions pertaining to that recognition when a Minnesota resident or other state's resident is carrying in ND under one of those permits.

Please keep this going Ed, I think we have to come to a consensus on this.

As far as splitting thread, the OP original question has been answered and the thread is taking a different path. If the OP question on Florida had not been answered, or other FL comments had been mixed in, then I agree it should split. But as of now, I think it is OK.
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