Any one ever ever build a dueling tree?

[flanjan]

When you factor in all the extraneous expenses, it's not an unfair price for what they're selling.

I'd agree with that. Steel, and precision cutting tools aren't cheap. My experience comes from 4x4 parts, but it's similar. Rocker guards made from $50 in angle iron don't equal rocker guards that are precision cut and formed. At the end of the day they do a similar job, but you can see the difference.

Lol, you mean an angle grinder and a cutting disc? I understand that you would want to get something that looks nice if its going on your vehicle, but this is going to be cursed at every time I have to lug it out to the 100yd line and probably get dropped. Not to mentioned shot....

[shooter115]

There is not a more frustrating or disappointing target I can think of than a poorly engineered and built dueling tree. If you don't build it the right way, its just gonna piss you off every time you try to use it. Put crap in, get crap out.

[Nougat]

can you even cut good steel with an angle grinder? I would think the kinds hard enough to shoot with more than a .22 would eat discs for breakfast. I'm no expert but I think it would be a crappy way to spend a day and would take more than one disk , how much do those cost? you're going to cut the arm and part you shoot all out of a sheet with an angle grinder?

anybody work with steel stuff and buy their own tools that knows?

[greenfarmer]

can you even cut good steel with an angle grinder? I would think the kinds hard enough to shoot with more than a .22 would eat discs for breakfast. I'm no expert but I think it would be a crappy way to spend a day and would take more than one disk , how much do those cost? you're going to cut the arm and part you shoot all out of a sheet with an angle grinder?

anybody work with steel stuff and buy their own tools that knows?

I wouldn't use steel that's very hard. The harder the steel the more brittle it is. You don't want something that's real soft either. Aluminum would be awesome. Problem is, it's so soft that i'm not sure you would get the bullet to actually swing the target around. Also, I know a .308 will shoot right thru 3/8 aluminum.

But at the same point, that hard steel, will cost a lot more than just a normal mild steel.

All you need is a plain 1020. Going to something like a 4340 chrome moly would get expensive! So yes, on a mild steel, an angle grinder would work. But you'd be there cutting forever.

It would be a fast and simple process to build a bunch of these if you have a nice band saw, and welder. a welding bench, and reamer.

[greenfarmer]

There is not a more frustrating or disappointing target I can think of than a poorly engineered and built dueling tree. If you don't build it the right way, its just gonna piss you off every time you try to use it. Put crap in, get crap out.

I can tell you this, if they are offering kits for YOU or ANYONE to weld together yourself. There isn't much involved in "engineering" or "building" these things. Because your still building it. You still need to weld the bushings on where the targets sit in. If you weld them on crooked, guess what? they won't swing. You weld them with to much heat, and the bushings' size will change, and the target won't swing.

So whether you buy a kit from online, or have someone make up the pieces to put it together. It doesn't matter. You can put the best things in money can buy, and still get crap out.

[old guy]

can you even cut good steel with an angle grinder? I would think the kinds hard enough to shoot with more than a .22 would eat discs for breakfast. I'm no expert but I think it would be a crappy way to spend a day and would take more than one disk , how much do those cost? you're going to cut the arm and part you shoot all out of a sheet with an angle grinder?

anybody work with steel stuff and buy their own tools that knows?

I wouldn't use steel that's very hard. The harder the steel the more brittle it is. You don't want something that's real soft either. Aluminum would be awesome. Problem is, it's so soft that i'm not sure you would get the bullet to actually swing the target around. Also, I know a .308 will shoot right thru 3/8 aluminum.

But at the same point, that hard steel, will cost a lot more than just a normal mild steel.

All you need is a plain 1020. Going to something like a 4340 chrome moly would get expensive! So yes, on a mild steel, an angle grinder would work. But you'd be there cutting forever.

It would be a fast and simple process to build a bunch of these if you have a nice band saw, and welder. a welding bench, and reamer.

You ain't gonna build this with an angle grinder and any of the centerfire rifle rnds mentioned will totally destroy any mild steel unit you build, heavy pistols will do the same but it will take longer.

John

[karlobag]

You ain't gonna build this with an angle grinder and any of the centerfire rifle rnds mentioned will totally destroy any mild steel unit you build, heavy pistols will do the same but it will take longer.

John

+1 on that. You should use 3/8" AR500 steel at a minimum.

[Jackpine Savage]

My local sportsmans club bought one of the Do-All dueling trees. We shot it to pieces in about an hour. It didn't like .45 hardball.

[shooter115]

There is not a more frustrating or disappointing target I can think of than a poorly engineered and built dueling tree. If you don't build it the right way, its just gonna piss you off every time you try to use it. Put crap in, get crap out.

I can tell you this, if they are offering kits for YOU or ANYONE to weld together yourself. There isn't much involved in "engineering" or "building" these things. Because your still building it. You still need to weld the bushings on where the targets sit in. If you weld them on crooked, guess what? they won't swing. You weld them with to much heat, and the bushings' size will change, and the target won't swing.

So whether you buy a kit from online, or have someone make up the pieces to put it together. It doesn't matter. You can put the best things in money can buy, and still get crap out.

What I'm saying is the design of the kit is crap. As far as putting it together goes, I'm not all that concerned. Prior to taking an internal job in sales, I was an AWS certified welder for many years and have 2 welders in my personal shop. I'm used to building things like this, so I think I could manage

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[greenfarmer]

can you even cut good steel with an angle grinder? I would think the kinds hard enough to shoot with more than a .22 would eat discs for breakfast. I'm no expert but I think it would be a crappy way to spend a day and would take more than one disk , how much do those cost? you're going to cut the arm and part you shoot all out of a sheet with an angle grinder?

anybody work with steel stuff and buy their own tools that knows?

I wouldn't use steel that's very hard. The harder the steel the more brittle it is. You don't want something that's real soft either. Aluminum would be awesome. Problem is, it's so soft that i'm not sure you would get the bullet to actually swing the target around. Also, I know a .308 will shoot right thru 3/8 aluminum.

But at the same point, that hard steel, will cost a lot more than just a normal mild steel.

All you need is a plain 1020. Going to something like a 4340 chrome moly would get expensive! So yes, on a mild steel, an angle grinder would work. But you'd be there cutting forever.

It would be a fast and simple process to build a bunch of these if you have a nice band saw, and welder. a welding bench, and reamer.

You ain't gonna build this with an angle grinder and any of the centerfire rifle rnds mentioned will totally destroy any mild steel unit you build, heavy pistols will do the same but it will take longer.

John

Where did I say I would use an angle grinder?

And yes, rifle rounds will destroy a lot of things, when your up close. .375 steel will not be destroyed that easily at a distance.

Build it for what your going to shoot at it. And I guarantee you that you could build one out of .375 steel, shot at 100 yards that wouldn't be destroyed as easy as you claim.

Remember, this isn't a stationary target that isn't going to move. As soon as your projectile hits this target, it's going to move. Unless it's not built properly. Your not talking about a moving object hitting a stationary object.

I have a friend who built something similar a year ago out of .250 aluminum that was laying around as scrap. .50 DE would shoot thru it at 15 yards. But that was it. It took the .308 to ruin it at 20 yards. Otherwise the .223 wouldn't go thru that aluminum.

[shooter115]

And yes, rifle rounds will destroy a lot of things, when your up close. .375 steel will not be destroyed that easily at a distance.

Build it for what your going to shoot at it. And I guarantee you that you could build one out of .375 steel, shot at 100 yards that wouldn't be destroyed as easy as you claim.

Remember, this isn't a stationary target that isn't going to move. As soon as your projectile hits this target, it's going to move. Unless it's not built properly. Your not talking about a moving object hitting a stationary object.

How much you want to bet?? Standard A36 3/8 plate will pock like a mofo when you shoot it at 100 yards and I don't care what kind of target it is. It can't move fast enough to deflect the energy. Thickness of the steel doesn't matter either, it's still going to crater. Once it craters, stuff starts coming back at you at high velocity. Mild still will hold up to most non-magnum handgun rounds for a loooooong time. If you want to use it as a rifle target you need to use AR450/500 if you expect it to last at all.

[plblark]

One of the risks when shooting steel is splatter. If it craters or distorts you cannot predict the splatter zone.


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[FJ540]

I can hardly wait for the lolz when the snow melts.

Dueling tree build off anyone? We'll have Oldman light `em up and see who's survives.

Evan (shootsteel.com) puts a lot of range time in on his prototypes and the guy is a certified mechanical engineer. When he can't pull one out of his exit and get it right every time, there might be more to it than just using the hot melt glue gun on some scrap iron.

3/8" mild steel (1018/A36) doesn't hold up to jacketed .45 acp at even moderate speeds at close ranges. 4140 will stress crack on you if you don't anneal your welds or TIG the thing together, and it's still going to get pocked. AR500 needs to be pretty thick to handle rifle rounds at 100yds. 1/2" mild steel will turn to Mars craters if you don't blast right through it.


Always, always, always, always check your ammo for steel core! I have a perfect .22 hole in my 1/4" target from a buddy's careless mag loading. He loaded up all he had and it didn't even register that he had steel core ammo in the gun. New shooter - bullets are bullets right? If I double tap it at the right pace I can knock that target over with 175gr 300blk rounds doing about 1400fps. Needs some concrete in the wheel.

[old guy]

I had a 40" 3/16" thick turntable base set up at 200 yd which I used to clang with .22 rimfire and cast lead pistol bullets, one day a friend used my range and bored 5 nice neat little holes thru it with a .223.
I also had a 16" x 1/4" thick mild steel plate at 100 yd, while my .44 mag. pistols wouldn't punch it they sure dented and warped it and it was hanging from chains.
One day I shot one of my 50 yd pistol targets with a .340 weatherby, it was an 8" piece of 5/8" thick floorplate and the .340 bored rite thru it and a piece of jacket came screaming back past me about 5 ft. to my right , I once punch a nice neat little rnd. hole thru one side of a 3/8" wall pipe with a .222 rem.
Back in the early I remember punching thru one inch of unknown steel with a .30-06 AP rnd.
Just my experience Gents, build what you want and tell us how it went.


John

[Demohead]

The brinell hardness of A36 steel plate is 187max, this is the most common steel that you can get at your local steel supplier. AR500 plate the brinell hardness is in the 470-521 range. This is used for minning equipment or something that needs a high abrasion resistance. I have shoot 1"thick Sa516-70 plate ( brinell is usually just under 200) this steel is used in high pressure tanks and vessels, and in under 40 rounds of 7.62x39 the target was junk. I would not build/buy any steel target if it is not made out of AR 500 plate.