Any folks here know or buy reloads from ron in bloomington

[Erud]

Seriously though, what are we arguing here? He can't be trusted unless the government says he's ok, no matter what he knows, or how capable or qualified he may be?

[Ghost]

I wonder if this guy from the midnight ammo company is appreciating all the free pub he's getting for his apparently illicit operation

Now be fair as none of us know what he has or does not have, I will talk to him friday and see what the deal is, I can understand what you guys are saying but lets find out before we lynch the guy internet style.

I am not for supporting a illegal operation but aside from doing business at his kitchen table and baggies as transport vessels ( I brought my own box when I went a few months ago ) I am hoping he is legit as even freedom-ammuntion or any of the others cannot come close, freedom wants $163+ ( in ohio ? ) for 250rds of JHP like ron's and from him it will be $80 so I am willing to talk to the man and get the scoop.

Am I missing something here? Freedom Munitions looks to be about $160-170 for 500 HP. In the $80's for 250 HP.

[Seismic Sam]

Seriously though, what are we arguing here? He can't be trusted unless the government says he's ok, no matter what he knows, or how capable or qualified he may be?

It certainly doesn't have to do with whether the Government says he's OK, because they can't even tell when serious and deliberate wrongdoing is going on in the IRS or the VA hospitals. Not to mention the ATF with Operation F&F...

This whole thing reeks so bad it fails the smell test at 25 yards, and the choices are obvious: If you DO know about reloading and have been doing it for decades, they you are painfully aware of the civil liability of selling ammo, and any experienced reloader in here will tell you there is no way in hell they will let somebody else shoot their stuff, much less SELL ammo to strangers in an unlabeled baggie. So this person either hasn't thought through the liability situation and is ignorant of the risk, or they think they are such hot s**t reloaders there's no way they will ever screw up. (My guess is #2) Plus they show no inkling of any professionalism as a reloader in business for themselves, or they would at least be printing their own labels with the company/maker's name on them, along with other good data like bullet weight, etc., so they could build up some brand name recognition. It is logically impossible that a person like this could be a seasoned professional who understands the risks and is running a legitimate business selling home-made ammo in unlabeled plastic baggies. This has nothing to do with whether the ammo shoots okay, and maybe the guy is a pretty good reloader for all we know. The point is no sane person who fully understands this sort of thing would EVER do something like this, so something HAS to be rotten in Denmark.

[xd ED]

Seriously though, what are we arguing here? He can't be trusted unless the government says he's ok, no matter what he knows, or how capable or qualified he may be?

I doubt that doing .gov paperwork makes one a safe, proficient hand loader. I was commenting on the probability of this being a legitimate/ licensed enterprise, as I believe the OP said he'd otherwise avoid doing bussiness there.

And equally seriously: you want to shot the stuff he's whipped up?

[Bessy]

If you DO know about reloading and have been doing it for decades, they you are painfully aware of the civil liability of selling ammo, and any experienced reloader in here will tell you there is no way in hell they will let somebody else shoot their stuff

I reloaded for a few years for my father, when he shot uspsa. If a close friend was in dire need of ammo I would load for them ( I have in the past). I would also inform them of the possibility of a double charge or squib (although I have never had either happen with ammo I loaded). I consider myself a relatively serious re loader. I have loaned rounds to other shooters who were also re-loaders at matches if they planned poorly and ran out.

The blanket statement that there is no way in hell any serious reloader would let somebody else shoot their stuff is pretty harsh. I wouldn't let anyone shoot my stuff that didn't understand the risks involved, or someone who was prone to sue in the event of injury. I certainly wouldn't sell it to strangers.

[Seismic Sam]

If you DO know about reloading and have been doing it for decades, they you are painfully aware of the civil liability of selling ammo, and any experienced reloader in here will tell you there is no way in hell they will let somebody else shoot their stuff

The blanket statement that there is no way in hell any serious reloader would let somebody else shoot their stuff is pretty harsh. Yeah, it IS pretty harsh, and unless you've experienced having part of your own body turned into hamburger, you really can't imagine how harsh the reality of that situation is.

I wouldn't let anyone shoot my stuff that didn't understand the risks involved, or someone who was prone to sue in the event of injury. They can think they fully understand the risks all they want, and have never sued a person before in their life, and once TSHTF all bets are completely off.

I certainly wouldn't sell it to strangers. That's exactly what this guy is doing.

[Bessy]

If you DO know about reloading and have been doing it for decades, they you are painfully aware of the civil liability of selling ammo, and any experienced reloader in here will tell you there is no way in hell they will let somebody else shoot their stuff

The blanket statement that there is no way in hell any serious reloader would let somebody else shoot their stuff is pretty harsh. Yeah, it IS pretty harsh, and unless you've experienced having part of your own body turned into hamburger, you really can't imagine how harsh the reality of that situation is.

I wouldn't let anyone shoot my stuff that didn't understand the risks involved, or someone who was prone to sue in the event of injury. They can think they fully understand the risks all they want, and have never sued a person before in their life, and once TSHTF all bets are completely off.

I certainly wouldn't sell it to strangers. That's exactly what this guy is doing.

This may come as a surprise to you sam but you don't have a monopoly on reloading accidents or firearm related injury. I've had a 1911 come apart in my hands due to reloader negligence. It wasn't my ammo. I wasn't aware at the time that I was shooting some one else's reloads. I still carry a piece of brass under my right eye. I'm fully aware of the risks involved in shooting reloads, just like I'm fully aware of the risks of getting into an automobile in rush hour traffic, or riding a motorcycle. Life is full of many risks the key is mitigation. There is a big difference between shooting your friend's reloads who you know has good QC and some strangers. I just think the blanket statement of "I would never let anyone else shoot my reloads" is not something I would adhere to. If they understand the risks involved, and are close friends I think it's fine. Considering most of my shooting buddies are competitive shooters, reloaders, and almost all of them have seen the effects of squibs, or a double charge in various matches, I think they have a better grip of the situation than you give them credit for.

You are a smart man, I'm sure if you tried you could make your points without the condescension. Especially when it's not warranted.

[forcefed]

This may come as a surprise to you sam but you don't have a monopoly on reloading accidents or firearm related injury.

You are a smart man, I'm sure if you tried you could make your points without the condescension. Especially when it's not warranted.

Sweet mother of baby Jesus. Where is the slow clap button???

[Erud]

If you DO know about reloading and have been doing it for decades, they you are painfully aware of the civil liability of selling ammo, and any experienced reloader in here will tell you there is no way in hell they will let somebody else shoot their stuff

The blanket statement that there is no way in hell any serious reloader would let somebody else shoot their stuff is pretty harsh. Yeah, it IS pretty harsh, and unless you've experienced having part of your own body turned into hamburger, you really can't imagine how harsh the reality of that situation is.

I wouldn't let anyone shoot my stuff that didn't understand the risks involved, or someone who was prone to sue in the event of injury. They can think they fully understand the risks all they want, and have never sued a person before in their life, and once TSHTF all bets are completely off.

I certainly wouldn't sell it to strangers. That's exactly what this guy is doing.

Sam, which part of your body was turned to hamburger in a reloading accident?

[Seismic Sam]

Like hamburger from a reloading accident is any different from hamburger any other way?? Are you REALLY going to try and tell me there's a difference after the fact?? REALLY?? Either way, there's this tremendous impact, you're damaged goods for the rest of your life, and you'll never be the same again, and you gotta live with it. So here you go sunshine:



Coulda been a reloading accident, but it was a snowblower back in 1968 with a clutch so you could stop the blades without stopping the engine. I clutched it 31 times, and cleaned it out 32 after 3 hours of work, and it was getting dark, and I was tired. Only problem was we were snowed in, so no medical attention for three full hours, and I got to sit in a chair and watch the marrow ooze out of what was left of the bones. You wanna tell me that a double charge of Blue Dot would have made the slightest difference in the level of trauma involved?? If you had lost the eye altogether, and perhaps the eye socket around it, I'm pretty sure you'd be whistling a different tune. Seen that a couple times, and it's pretty nasty. What turns you into hamburger is entirely irrelevant. Reloading accident, snowblower, Claymore, drunken driving, it's all the same after the first 20 milliseconds.

[Erud]

Like hamburger from a reloading accident is any different from hamburger any other way?? Are you REALLY going to try and tell me there's a difference after the fact?? REALLY?? Either way, there's this tremendous impact, you're damaged goods for the rest of your life, and you'll never be the same again, and you gotta live with it. So here you go sunshine:



Coulda been a reloading accident, but it was a snowblower back in 1968 with a clutch so you could stop the blades without stopping the engine. I clutched it 31 times, and cleaned it out 32 after 3 hours of work, and it was getting dark, and I was tired. Only problem was we were snowed in, so no medical attention for three full hours, and I got to sit in a chair and watch the marrow ooze out of what was left of the bones. You wanna tell me that a double charge of Blue Dot would have made the slightest difference in the level of trauma involved?? If you had lost the eye altogether, I'm pretty sure you'd be whistling a different tune. What turns you into hamburger is entirely irrelevant. Reloading accident, snowblower, Claymore, drunken driving, it's all the same after the first 20 milliseconds.

Settle down - I'm not whistling any tune, just asking a question.

Your snowblower war story is most epic, almost like a scene from "Saving Private Ryan". I now respect your knowledge even more than before. Thanks for helping out us shooting and reloading noobs.

[Seismic Sam]

I'm just going to ignore the sarcasm, and tell you about another experience that happened less than a year later that pretty much embodies the seriousness of reloading, and the consequences. Was taking an advanced inorganic synthesis lab as a junior, and you picked an organometal compound off a list without knowing what was involved, and then had to make the stuff. I drew the short straw, and got something that required a reaction with sodium shot in the first step in ether, and then a reaction with vanadium tetrachloride, which was so unstable it would even react with oxygen, so you had to do this in a nitrogen atmosphere. It was also toxic as hell. I get sent up to a blowout room to do this, and this is a room with steel reinforced concrete walls, a 1" thick steel door opening inwards, and the outer wall is mounted on clips so if you blow yourself up the outer wall will just blow off its clips and preserve the integrity of the building. The best feature was this big 9' high by 18' foot wide woven potholder like you made in Boy Scouts, except it was made with 3/4" diameter steel cable. The purpose of this was to keep the pieces of you and your experiment from blowing all over the campus quadrangle and ruining the scenery. If you left so much as a speck of sodium the size of a pinhead in the 1st step, or maybe even less, the VCl4 would detonate when you added it in the 2nd step, and you would be very toxic toast. The room had no telephone, no fire extinguisher, and no emergency call button in it. With diethyl ether, all of those are completely useless. When that steel door slammed shut behind you, you were TOTALLY on your own, and the penalty for the slightest mistake was a very gruesome death. Compared to that, reloading is a walk in the park, but once you put your ass 100% on the line like that, you're never going to be able to rationalize that you can be a little more sloppy than that with some nice, stable nitrocellulose that "only" generates 55,000 PSI when you use it properly. You recovered from your accident and I got permanently disfigured. If our positions were reversed, you'd be the butthead and I'd be the one questioning what your effen problem was.

[Erud]

I'm just going to ignore the sarcasm, and tell you about another experience that happened less than a year later that pretty much embodies the seriousness of reloading, and the consequences. Was taking an advanced inorganic synthesis lab as a junior, and you picked an organometal compound off a list without knowing what was involved, and then had to make the stuff. I drew the short straw, and got something that required a reaction with sodium shot in the first step in ether, and then a reaction with vanadium tetrachloride, which was so unstable it would even react with oxygen, so you had to do this in a nitrogen atmosphere. It was also toxic as hell. I get sent up to a blowout room to do this, and this is a room with steel reinforced concrete walls, a 1" thick steel door opening inwards, and the outer wall is mounted on clips so if you blow yourself up the outer wall will just blow off its clips and preserve the integrity of the building. The best feature was this big 9' high by 18' foot wide woven potholder like you made in Boy Scouts, except it was made with 3/4" diameter steel cable. The purpose of this was to keep the pieces of you and your experiment from blowing all over the campus quadrangle and ruining the scenery. If you left so much as a speck of sodium the size of a pinhead in the 1st step, or maybe even less, the VCl4 would detonate when you added it in the 2nd step, and you would be very toxic toast. The room had no telephone, no fire extinguisher, and no emergency call button in it. With diethyl ether, all of those are completely useless. When that steel door slammed shut behind you, you were TOTALLY on your own, and the penalty for the slightest mistake was a very gruesome death. Compared to that, reloading is a walk in the park, but once you put your ass 100% on the line like that, you're never going to be able to rationalize that you can be a little more sloppy than that with some nice, stable nitrocellulose that "only" generates 55,000 PSI when you use it properly. You recovered from your accident and I got permanently disfigured. If our positions were reversed, you'd be the butthead and I'd be the one questioning what your effen problem was.

You had me up until the end, but now I'm not sure if you are talking to me or not. What was this accident that I recovered from?

[Seismic Sam]

Sorry, but I got your reply and Bessy's confused. My humble apologies for my attitude towards you, when I was trying to point out the difference between almost losing an eye or a hand and actually having it disappear before you even knew what hit you. I hate getting old.

[Synergy]

I'm just curious.

Lets assume a round does blow up and causes injury? How does one go about proving that it was the ammo that was purchased from this guy in Bloomington? I assume its all cash and no paperwork, how do you prove this?