New resident with a few questions

[xd ED]

I think you need to learn a bit more about the law as it pertains to school restrictions and prohibitions.
cobb's statement is true, even if you don't understand it.

ETA:
While I cannot find the exact statute
I believe this is the short version-
With a MN permit you can drive onto school property and secure a handgun before leaving the vehicle's parking spot- not legal without a MN permit.
With a MN permit AND the school's admin permission you can carry on school grounds
A- not legal without a MN permit
A1- without a MN permit: a felony; lesser crime with permit, without permission.

That is under 609.66:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.66

(3) persons authorized to carry a pistol under section 624.714 while in a motor vehicle or outside of a motor vehicle to directly place a firearm in, or retrieve it from, the trunk or rear area of the vehicle;

The one thing I'm still trying to find is where does it say ONLY valid for MN permits and not for permits that the state recognizes. Does anyone know where that is?

It has been my recollection that it is a right exclusive to MN permits, however, the only thing I can immediately find does not support my memory:

624.714 CARRYING OF WEAPONS WITHOUT PERMIT; PENALTIES.

Subd. 16.Recognition of permits from other states. (a) The commissioner must annually establish and publish a list of other states that have laws governing the issuance of permits to carry weapons that are not substantially similar to this section. The list must be available on the Internet. A person holding a carry permit from a state not on the list may use the license or permit in this state subject to the rights, privileges, and requirements of this section.

The convoluted nature of this text making my brain squirm notwithstanding, this makes it appear an out of state permit is OK.
But I am far from being fully versed on MN Carry Permit Law, so the usual disclaimer applies:
IANAL
Remember what you paid for this advice...

[Randygmn]

While we are on the subject of "schools"-- is it legal to be in your car, in the parking lot, on school grounds with a concealed firearm? Essentially, there to pick up a child? Yes, I have a PTC. Does it matter if I exit the vehicle (to open the door or trunk, or to put the child in a car seat, etc)? Thanks

[xd ED]

Here's the relevant MN Law;
you decide.

609.66 DANGEROUS WEAPONS.
Subd. 1d.Possession on school property; penalty. (a) Except as provided under paragraphs (d) and (f), whoever possesses, stores, or keeps a dangerous weapon while knowingly on school property is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.


(f) This subdivision does not apply to:

(3) persons authorized to carry a pistol under section 624.714 while in a motor vehicle or outside of a motor vehicle to directly place a firearm in, or retrieve it from, the trunk or rear area of the vehicle;

Personally, I'd not do anything outside the vehicle except head to/ from the trunk for purposes of stowing/ retrieving the pistol.


609.66 DANGEROUS WEAPONS. Subd. 1d. (f) (3)

[cobb]

Possesion on MN school property also come into play, cannot with a UT but can with a MN if you are a MN resident.

That statement is very poorly written and one could easily misinterpret it, though I would hope anyone carrying would read the laws for themselves. It should read 'on MNSCU property' as all elementary, middle, or secondary school are prohibited even if you have a MN permit.

I agree, I was a bit broad with my statement, but a MN resident with a MN permit to carry can carry on school property, specifically the parking lot. That permit holder can also get permition from someone of authority such as the school principle and carry in the school building. Again I am referring to K-12.

He is a word document with the info on the federal gun free zone.

18 USC.doc

(28.5 KB) Downloaded 223 times

GUN FREE "SCHOOL ZONE" - Definition
18 USC § 921(a)(25) The term “school zone” means

(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or

(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

18 USC § 922 (q)(2) --

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

So under that statute it says you can carry with a MN permit to carry on K-12 grounds, but a Utah would not qualify.

[grimbeaver]

It has been my recollection that it is a right exclusive to MN permits, however, the only thing I can immediately find does not support my memory:

624.714 CARRYING OF WEAPONS WITHOUT PERMIT; PENALTIES.

Subd. 16.Recognition of permits from other states. (a) The commissioner must annually establish and publish a list of other states that have laws governing the issuance of permits to carry weapons that are not substantially similar to this section. The list must be available on the Internet. A person holding a carry permit from a state not on the list may use the license or permit in this state subject to the rights, privileges, and requirements of this section.

The convoluted nature of this text making my brain squirm notwithstanding, this makes it appear an out of state permit is OK.
But I am far from being fully versed on MN Carry Permit Law, so the usual disclaimer applies:
IANAL
Remember what you paid for this advice...

That is all I've been able to find as well.

The best advice is probably if you are going to have possession on school grounds it would be in your best interest to do it discretely. Even though you know the law I'm willing to bet well over 95% of the people on the school grounds don't and chances are the cop they call to come out isn't going to know the exact letter of the law either. So just save yourself the headache and don't make a show.

[Marble]

The one thing I'm still trying to find is where does it say ONLY valid for MN permits and not for permits that the state recognizes. Does anyone know where that is?

Such is the interpretation of the ATF

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 3gfsza.pdf

[jshuberg]

I tell my students to avoid carrying a firearm in a school zone regardless of the law. Post Newtown, people are extremely sensitive about firearms and schools. Even if it's legal, if someone discovers you're carrying, it's very likely the school will go into lockdown. SWAT teams will show up, and your face will be all over the national news.

Legal doesn't mean smart. And if you walk to the back of your car, pull out your pistol and close it in the trunk when students or faculty might see what you're doing, your an idiot. Not a criminal provided you have a MN carry permit, but an idiot nonetheless. Don't be that guy.

[steve4102]

I tell my students to avoid carrying a firearm in a school zone regardless of the law. .

What do "YOU" mean by "school zone"?

Do you mean school property, or do you mean the Federal Governments definition of 1000 Feet from any school property?

[xd ED]

I tell my students to avoid carrying a firearm in a school zone regardless of the law. .

What do "YOU" mean by "school zone"?

Do you mean school property, or do you mean the Federal Governments definition of 1000 Feet from any school property?

Could one functionally carry in the metro area if they were to disarm when 1000' feet from any school property?

[jshuberg]

Sorry for the ambiguity - I mean school property. But more correctly I mean to be smart and follow common sense.

While I very much believe that everyone should know and understand the law (both statute and case), the closer you get to the fine print and all of the various minutia, the more you're pushing your luck. Especially around children and schools. Don't be the guy pushing the limits of common sense and being an antagonist or intimidating people simply because it's not illegal and "you've got your rights". I hate those people, they do more harm than any of the ant-gun cultists likely ever will in the minds of the general public. People shouldn't look to the letter of the law for behavioral boundaries, they should follow acceptable public norms, and avoid anything (legal or not) that could cause a panic.

For example, open carry in MN is legal, but don't go walking down the sidewalk in front of a school with your gun visible, it's just not likely to end well. It may actually be a crime to do so, since the sidewalk is located on school property. It also may not be illegal because the sidewalk is considered a public right of way the same as a street. Without a judicial ruling to clarify, public sidewalks on school property should be treated as prohibited unless you volunteer to be the test case. Even if it were to be determined to be legal, doing it would be ridiculously stupid as there's a strong possibility the school will go into lockdown, the children will be terrified and traumatized, and you'll end up on the nation news. Plus all your neighbors will hate you from that point on.

[MWAG]

I tell my students to avoid carrying a firearm in a school zone regardless of the law. .

What do "YOU" mean by "school zone"?

Do you mean school property, or do you mean the Federal Governments definition of 1000 Feet from any school property?

Could one functionally carry in the metro area if they were to disarm when 1000' feet from any school property?

Can one actually be 1000' from any school zone in the metro?

[20mm]

I tell my students to avoid carrying a firearm in a school zone regardless of the law. .

What other places do you tell them to avoid carrying a firearm where they're legally able to?

I hope one of your students or their kids doesn't die because they took your non-legal advice.

[642rUS]

Minn. Stat. sec. 624.714, subd. 16 treats a permit from a recognized state AS IF IT IS a Minnesota permit.

[cobb]

Minn. Stat. sec. 624.714, subd. 16 treats a permit from a recognized state AS IF IT IS a Minnesota permit.

But not federal law. So does not 18 USC § 922 (q)(2) come into play?

And Minn. Stat. sec. 624.714, subd. 16 pertains to carry, a Utah permit which is recognized in Minnesota for carry cannot be used to purchase a handgun as if it is a Minnesota permit.

[tletourneau]

Public sidewalks are not school property anymore than the sidewalk in front of a home is the property of the home owner. It is a public thoroughfare and as such has the same regulations as a public road as far as carry is concerned (excluding gated communities). Any form of legal carry by a MN permit holder is as legal on a public sidewalk as it is in any other public space that does not have a specific exclusion.

Sent from a mobile device.