Storing NFA firearms and accessories in Wisconsin

[Tom7189]

I have a family member moving back to MN from Florida soon and he is in need of a place to store his NFA stuff. He was hoping to find either a range or club around the Hudson area to keep it there just for ease of traveling and being able to shoot right where it is stored. Has anyone done this or have any ideas? Thanks

[BC98]

I'm pretty sure that's not allowed as that would likely cause an unauthorized transfer of your family member's NFA items to the club/range. I'm not 100% sure but they MIGHT be able to store in a safe-deposit box. What types of items are going to be stored?

[rottenit]

I've wondered in situations like this could you form a trust, then make a person in Wisconsin a member of the trust allowing legal possession of the NFA items?

[jshuberg]

In order to move an NFA weapon across state lines, you need permission from the BATFE. This is done via form 5320.20:
https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/downloa ... 320-20.pdf

This is the same form used for both temporary and permanent relocations. This would be a permanent relocation. If you're not sure the exact dates the weapons will be moved, provide a window of time in field #3. In field #5 you would put permanent storage in the state in WI. However, there's an extremely likely chance that BATFE will deny the relocation. Any 5320.20 that indicates that a permanent relocation is taking place to a location where the owner doesn't reside, they will deny the relocation. It is possible for NFA weapons to be stored in a state the owner doesn't reside in, but that typically happens when the owner lived and purchased NFA weapons in state A, moved to state B, but left the NFA weapons stored in state A (typically because those weapons aren't legal in state B). When this happens the weapons don't move in interstate commerce, and there are no forms that are submitted to BATFE. As long as the owner is the only one with physcial access, no transfer has occurred.

I contacted the BATFE awhile back about forming a trust in WI for the purpose of buying suppressors and storing them in WI. They had their legal people look into it for me and told me that they would deny the transfer of an NFA weapon into a trust where the grantor doesn't reside or own property. I presume that it would be the same for someone applying to move an NFA weapon with a 5320.20. Unless something has changed in the last year or so, the application for relocation will be denied.

However, there may still be a way around this. If you can find a person that your family member trusts that does live in WI, your relative can create a trust in WI and make their WI friend a trustee. I wouldn't use a Quicken trust for this, but actually have a lawyer create a trust specifically for this scenario. If they ever have a falling out with their friend they don't want their friend to have "co-owner" rights to the weapons, so some custom wording would be needed. Specifically the wording should state that the trustee is allowed to possess the property the trust owns on behalf on the grantor and beneficiaries until the grantor dies, but that the trustees cannot sell or otherwise transfer the property in the trust without written permission from the grantor, that the the grantor must be notified whenever the trust property is moved or relocated, and that the trustee must transfer the property to anyone the grantor designates on demand of the grantor. There are likely other things that a good firearms/estate lawyer will take care of as well. I'd recommend the following for something like this:
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/

Basically, if I were your relative, this is what I would do:

1) Contact the NFA branch of the BATFE (304-616-4500), and speak to one of the examiners and explain the problem, and describe the proposed solution. Provided that the below is both legal, and the simplest process for solving the problem, continue with the following:

2) Find a suitable storage location in FL for the weapons as this process might take awhile.
3) Find someone in WI that they trust to be a trustee and to be in possession of the weapons.
4) Create a trust in WI, with specific language for the circumstances, and make the person a trustee.
5) Transfer all NFA weapons into the trust via form 4. This can take awhile, and will require paying another transfer tax per weapon.
6) Once the form 4s come back approved, send in a form 5320.20 to permanently relocate the NFA weapons from FL to WI, specifically stating on line #5 that the trustee of the trust who resides in WI will be in possession of the weapons.
7) Ship the NFA weapons from FL to the Trustee in WI.

I'm pretty sure this will work, and that it is likely the simplest way to do this. You could also create a corporation rather than a trust in WI, or actually buy property in WI, but this is most likely the easiest way.

I'm not a lawyer, and none of this is legal advice, but is based on my understanding of the NFA, and my experience in researching a similar question. Hope this helps.

[OldmanFCSA]

A friend of mine moved his NFA stuff from Florida to North Carolina with all approved documents with proper dates. Then in route the truck broke down. Repair to the truck caused a very late delivery outside of scheduled date. End result was confiscation of all items and a court proceding against him. He lost all items to stay out of jail. And because of no fault of his own.

[LumberZach]

Based on jshuberg's experience, would it then be possible to purchase a cabin in Wisconsin or something of the sort and store the weapons there? Primary residence seems to go in and out of the language a little bit. Seems that if the weapons are allowed to stay in Florida while he becomes a resident of Minnesota, it would work just about as well to buy a small amount of vacation land for yourself and go use them across the boarder.

[Bessy]

Based on jshuberg's experience, would it then be possible to purchase a cabin in Wisconsin or something of the sort and store the weapons there? Primary residence seems to go in and out of the language a little bit. Seems that if the weapons are allowed to stay in Florida while he becomes a resident of Minnesota, it would work just about as well to buy a small amount of vacation land for yourself and go use them across the boarder.

I have a friend who has a cabin in Wisconsin. He has a suppressor on a trust. It is kept in his cabin in Wisconsin. Since the weapon is on a trust primary residence doesn't matter as it's owned by the trust. He had a lawyer help him out, but it appears to be entirely possible. The key was owning land in Wisconsin.

[Tom7189]

Thanks for the advice guys, he has a couple FAs, a few supressors, and a couple SBRs. Obviously the SBRs are going to be a lot easier to work out than the others. Everything is currently in a trust, and we do have family that lives in WI. We haven't looked too far into this yet or have talked to anyone directly but from what I have read is we could either leave it at the family members house in WI as long as they do not have access to it (let's say in a safe that only he has the combination to), or at a class 3 dealer in WI that will store everything. Like I said this is just what he has come up with so far he will be calling the ATF to confirm. This could be completely wrong, just figured I would see if anyone has came across this before. Thanks again

[jshuberg]

If he already has a trust, add the family member as a trustee, with the "cover your butt" language I suggested, and send the form 5320.20 to the BATFE, along with a copy of the declaration of trust showing the trustee in WI. It should then be approved.

He cannot legally move an NFA weapon across state lines without an approved 5320.20. BATFE will almost certainly deny the permanent relocation to WI unless a trustee of the trust who will be in possession is listed with accompanying documentation.

Storing NFA weapons with someone who does not have access to them (only the owner knows the safe combo, etc.) works if you need to move them someplace in the same state without having to do a transfer. This will most likely *not* work across state lines. They need to be located in the same state as one of the owners for the relocation to be approved.

The same is true when sending to an FFL/SOT, that works for intrastate storage, and for temporary transfers. Permanent storage (as I understand it) is a different thing.

Things are subject to change from time to time, so please call BATFE and ask the questions. Most importantly, don't allow him to cross state lines without an approved 5320.20. Doing so will put him at risk of losing his weapons, and federal prison time. Making the WI relative a trustee is most likely the best way to do this other than renting or purchasing property in WI.