State of Confusion!!

[maddhunter]

I have been looking for a 10.5" barrel for a pistol build. With the Black Friday "hysteria" now in full swing I am swamped with adds from everybody that sells AR's. My dilemma is how can the same barrel from Classic Arms be available for $67.00 and a similar one from any of the more well known manufacturers have a price tag of seven to eight times as much. I fully realize one gets what one pays for but come on. Really-- is a Noveske worth eight times what a barrel from Classic Arms is worth. If nothing else my question should make for some interesting replies. Lite me up!!!

[Nougat]

mayhaps you get more help after making your title relevant to your query

[tenmilmag]

I'm confused. Has the title been changed yet

[UnaStamus]

It depends on the construction of the barrel. All barrels aren't the same. Noveske CHF barrels are made by FN, and their SS barrels are made by PacNor. Unless Classic Arms is doing the same thing, you're not going to get the same barrel. FN and Daniel Defense are the premier US barrel manufacturers for hammer forged barrels, and they make barrels for several companies besides their own rifles. Precision barrels are made from various blanks and manufacturers like PacNor, Krieger, Wilson, Shilen, etc.

When it comes to barrel construction, there are several factors involved that affect not only price, but quality.

In-House vs Outsourced: Companies with in-house manufacturing have fluctuating prices depending on who is offering them. Freedom Group companies (Remington, Bushmaster) get their barrels from DPMS. DPMS barrels are inexpensive and made in-house. Daniel Defense makes their own barrels, and those barrels are much more costly.
Blanks vs Pre-Cut: If a manufacturer gets their barrels from another builder and they come pre-cut, this could either result in more or less cost, depending on barrel treatments and the capabilities of the manufacturer.
Contruction: There are factors involved like cut rifling vs cold hammer forging that affect price. Cold hammer forging tends to be more expensive due to needed equipment and time. The type of rifling also can affect cost, as polygonal rifling tends to be more costly than traditional land and groove rifling.
Construction material: The type of metal, whether it's steel and whether it's 4140, 4150 or MIL-B-11595E, or stainless steel and 410 vs 416 stainless can affect price.
Precision of manufacturing and Quality Control: Companies with high tolerances and quality control tend to command higher prices for their components due to higher guaranteed quality.


Something to think about:

The Classic Arms barrels are listed as

a premium grade 16" Parkerized AR-15 pistol barrel from a highly respected U.S. contractor / barrel manufacturer."

and

These barrels are made from 4140 cold rolled steel and are rated at a barrel life of approximately 150,000 rounds. They are very top end.

US Contractor could mean anything, but likely means a company located in the US who Classic Arms contracts their barrels through. What they are probably trying to trick people into believing is that it's a military contractor, without actually saying it's a military contractor. We know it's not a military contractor because MIL-SPEC barrels are not 4140 steel. MIL-SPEC barrels are the 11595E, which is a 4150 steel with additional certifications.
Here's a good explanation: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?37-Barrel-Steel-4150-4140-Chrome-Moly-CMV

Additionally, there's no damn way their barrels can get 150,000 rounds before they are a FIELD gauge rating (this is an eroded throat where headspacing has opened up due to extensive use). The lands would also be so worn that the accuracy would be terrible. The best and most durable AR barrels on the market have not made it past ~50,000 rounds before needing to be replaced. The top barrel manufacturers are FN, Daniel Defense and HK, and they have yet to manufacture a 150,000 round barrel.


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Then you have this wonderful pile of excrement:

They are not chrome lined as most AR15 barrels are not. Chrome lining on modern rifles is typically used where there is a high probability of corrosive ammo being used such as AK type rifles chambered for foreign calibers...

Since chrome lining may slightly affect accuracy, and since most AR-15 rifles are designed with accuracy as a benchmark,
and since virtually all .223 / 5.56 NATO is non corrosive...most AR manufacturers do not chrome line barrels.

That's utter bullshlt. Chrome lining is designed to protect the rifling from corrosion due to environmental factors like moisture, and erosion due to high round count shooting and heat. Chrome is harder than steel, and resists erosion better. It's because of high round counts and high heat that machinegun barrels (M240, M249, M27 IAR, etc) have a double chrome lining. US made 5.56 and .223 ammunition is not corrosive. The corrosive crap comes from former Comm-Bloc manufacturers, which account for a small percentage of sales.
Chrome lining does not affect accuracy, and FN has proved this. The FN SPR bolt action rifles are all sub-0.5 MOA capable and they have chrome lined barrels. They intentionally built that rifle to prove that chrome lining does not affect accuracy if you build the barrel correctly and cut the rifling correctly.
AR accuracy is based around two standards- precision and "milspec type". Military accuracy standards are 4 MOA for the M4 carbine with M855 ammunition. This does not mean that they're not accurate, because I can shoot an off-the-rack Colt carbine (R0920, LE6921, etc) using match ammo and shoot 1 MOA with some. Not all, but some. Some don't do much better than 2 MOA. That's still close enough for most applications and very good. The precision barrels that you see on the market are a different breed, and most of them are 410 or 416 stainless construction.

Most QUALITY AR manufacturers use chrome lining or else melonite/salt nitride (actually harder than chrome). Any company that sells select-fire rifles to LE/GOV/MIL uses either chrome lining or melonite/salt nitride in their barrels. Even DPMS puts chrome lining in their LE contract select-fire rifles, and DPMS sucks. You don't line or treat stainless barrels, but you do the CMV steel barrels. Companies that don't line their barrels or treat them are doing so to cut corners and offer a less expensive product.


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The reason why the Classic Arms barrel is $67 is because they're a crap company that talks out of their anus. They're trying to trick the ignorant into buying substandard components through misinformation. They're essentially trying to sell you a VW Beetle and convince you it's the same as a Porsche 911 Turbo.

[tenmilmag]

No longer confused. No need to change the title. Thanks UnaStamus!

[Nougat]

...well I was just trying to help. since I couldn't any other way

[UnaStamus]

I'm not saying that the Classic Arms barrels are going to bring about communism and end the world as we know it. They just aren't on par with the quality you would get from Noveske or other barrel companies. Noveske barrels are expensive, but BCM and PSA also get their CHF barrels from FN, and their barrels are less expensive. There are ways to cut costs without cutting corners, but it takes some research and time so it's not all that unreasonable for the general public to not know this stuff.

I'm just pointing out the "buyer beware" issue so that if you decide to get a Classic Arms barrel, you are making a more informed decision about what exactly you are buying.