Range Safety Issue

View · by **gp55445** on Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:04 pm

I've been doing most of my shooting lately at Rogers and last week was standing at the line loading mags and got hit in the shin with a ricochet. Didn't break the skin, just sore and my guess is came from the guy a few lanes down doing mag dumps with his AR. I told the RO and gave her the bullet. She looked lost and since I was almost done, I left a few minutes later.

Returned today and after a few minutes wait, got to the line and was hanging my target. Once again I'm hit in the right arm with a ricochet and this time it left a decent bruise.

Same RO was there and waved her over. Explained what happened and got the same lost look. Decided to cut my losses and pack up and leave.

Went to the counter and explained what happened both weeks and got a refund. The guy at the counter was apologetic but one of the co-owners who was asked how to process my refund acted like I was full of it and never asked anything about what happened. The employee had to explain I didn't shoot yet as it appeared he thought I was trying to get a free range visit.

The backstop looks fairly worn and crumbling but maybe it's fine, who knows, but it's time to find another place to shoot.

GP

View · by **SRM** on Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:07 pm

Was this at Target Sports I assume?

View · by **gp55445** on Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:23 pm

Correct

View · by **mmcnx2** on Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:40 pm

Not making excuses for any range, but in many cases it is the other shooters hitting the floors. walls or metal rails and there really is not much you can do about it. I've caught a ricochet on just about every indoor range in the cities. Worst ricochet I've endured was actually at a outdoor USPSA shoot that hit my safety glasses and continued upwards to slit my forehead about 3/4 inch, bleed like a stuck pig.

View · by **gp55445** on Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:08 pm

I'm not either, just passing along my luck and how the range handled it. I'm all for rapid shots if the shooter is qualified, but let's face it most aren't. Manage the shooters in your range and listen to your customers concerns.

by **lumbering.buffalo** on Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:25 pm

gp55445 wrote:...I'm all for rapid shots if the shooter is qualified, but let's face it most aren't. Manage the shooters in your range and listen to your customers concerns.

Not in an indoor range I'm not; expressly because of what happened to you. I also think indoor ranges, if they multiple rooms of bays should segregate the hand cannons from the normal weapons (and I shoot two). They can be distracting, frightening and downright annoying.

Just my two-cents.

View · by **SRM** on Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:17 pm

I packed up my AR at the same range when I noticed another shooter flinch every time I fired. Last thing I wanted was someone spooked and not comfortable handling a gun next to me. Not sure on the specifics but it's a little more intimate shooting something bigger there than at Bills, though maybe it's the customer base as well and so many new shooters.

View · by **Eric Marleau** on Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:06 pm

Last year, I shut a shooter down who was going ninja with his AR. Just the other week I had a guy case his 1911 because in my opinion the gun wasn't safe. As an RO I try to make sure that shooters have a good time, but when safety becomes an issue, I don't hesitate to correct the situation.

Eric

View · by **jshuberg** on Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:06 am

lumbering.buffalo wrote:
gp55445 wrote:...I'm all for rapid shots if the shooter is qualified, but let's face it most aren't. Manage the shooters in your range and listen to your customers concerns.

Not in an indoor range I'm not; expressly because of what happened to you. I also think indoor ranges, if they multiple rooms of bays should segregate the hand cannons from the normal weapons (and I shoot two). They can be distracting, frightening and downright annoying.

Just my two-cents.

That's ridiculous. Rapid fire is an important part of shooting. If you prohibit rapid fire, two things happen - no one with any skills will go there because they can't actually train, and the bozos that have no idea what they're doing will never see anyone that knows how to shoot to compare themselves against. This is bad for both the experienced and novice shooter, as well as for the range.

I can hold a 4" group at 7 yards shooting .20 second splits. That's 5 rounds per second. Lately I've been letting accuracy open up in favor of training on speed, but can still hold center silhouette at around .10-.12 second splits. My best recorded time was 5 rounds in .536 seconds. Do you think I'm going to plunk down any money at a place with a 1 round per second rule? Not a chance. I wouldn't waste my time even if it were free.

Long distance accuracy at 25 or 50 yards gets pretty boring pretty fast. Shooting well is a balance of speed and accuracy. Putting an arbitrary limit on how fast a person can shoot, rather than on their skill level is worthless to anyone who wants to become the best shooter they can be. And it would completely eliminate being able to bring my machine gun out.

The solution is to scold poor shooters that are trying to shoot beyond their ability. Also, I've never been hit by a ricochet of any kind indoors, and only minor scratches by a few jacket fragments outdoors when shooting steel at close range. I've been burned by my own brass quite a few times, even had a piece bounce into my glasses and give me a little welt below my eye, but no ricochet. And I've been going to the range twice a week or so on average over the last 9 years or so. The claim of multiple ricochet injuries in a short period of time seems a bit improbable to me. But I must admit I don't go to that range.

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View · by **Erud** on Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:48 am

jshuberg wrote:Long distance accuracy at 25 or 50 yards gets pretty boring pretty fast.

That is the first time I have ever seen the terms "long distance" and "25 or 50 yards" used in the same sentence.

View · by **jshuberg** on Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:30 am

25 yards is around what I consider the beginning point of "long distance" with a pistol. Not so much because 25 yards itself is a long distance, but because the techniques for shooting accurately with a pistol past 25 yards are different than when shooting up close. Perhaps I should have said that shooting using a "long distance technique" at 25 or 50 yards gets boring pretty quickly.

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View · by **old guy** on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:04 pm

I have in my hand a full jacket .45 that landed in my cubicle at the circle pines range a few years ago, I guess it has to happen sooner or later.

John

View · by **lizard55033** on Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:36 pm

It has nothing to do with "Rapid Fire" nor it being an AR.

I've been hit by ricochets before at indoor ranges. Both at Bills and Gander Mountain. One was a round from my own pistol.
I truely believe "indoor ranges" most of it has to do cleanliness and quality of the back stop.

View · by JJ on Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:42 pm

I've been hit by jacket fragments at indoor ranges and outdoor ranges, steel and paper targets, off dirt berms and indoor backstops, both pistol and rifle. The occasional fragment from a bullet is expected, especially on short ranges. There is a reason eye protection is required.

There was no safety issue here, beyond your run of the mill danger of being at a gun range.

View · by **jshuberg** on Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:20 pm

Wow, I had no idea it was anywhere near that common. Strange I've never witnessed it.

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