U of M Medical Center.

[Chunkychuck]

My healthcare facility used to be operated by Fairview and it was posted. When Mayo took over the signs came down.

[Hmac]

Our hospital is a district hospital, therefore can't ban guns. Our private multispecialty clinic shared a reception lobby with the hospital and they asked us to ban guns for them. We said "no".

[Belgiboy]

Fairview bans guns in all their locations.

[UnaStamus]

Fairview is relatively strict with their gun bans. They have certain sections where they won't even allow us as uniform police to carry, even on duty. The units are locked and they can restrict foot traffic without warrant/exigent circumstance, but they can't legally dictate gun possession by LE...Yet, they still try. Just an observation about the competency of Fairview's legal advisors that may shed some light on the issue from a carry perspective.

I've met plenty of medical personnel who have a pretty low opinion of the Fairview system that I don't worry about going to one and dealing with it on a personal level.

[Rip Van Winkle]

I spent quite a bit of time at UMMC Fairview Hospital and Masonic Center last summer and don't recall seeing any signs. Granted, I was distracted with my wife's failing health, but still don't recall any signs.

[Citiot]

I wonder if hospitals with gun ban entrance signs might be similar to a mall.

Unless all offices in that building are part of Fairview, etc, they can not lawfully ban guns in the entire facility much like any "landlord."

In other words, if someone leases as little as a janitor closet, the entire building can't be lawfully posted.

Citiot

[Hmac]

I wonder if hospitals with gun ban entrance signs might be similar to a mall.

Unless all offices in that building are part of Fairview, etc, they can not lawfully ban guns in the entire facility much like any "landlord."

In other words, if someone leases as little as a janitor closet, the entire building can't be lawfully posted.

Citiot

Many different configurations for health care facilities. Some rent office space to physicians or other community organizationsas well as retail pharmacies and medical supply stores, others don't.

I'm not sure that your interpretation of the landlord rules is correct. That concept doesn't fly at MOA, for example.

[old guy]

I could be wrong, but I think some lawyers would have to be totally asleep not to cover that one. The hospice I work at DOES have that sign, for whatever purpose it serves, but I can't really remember if there were signs at Bethesda St. Paul or Gillette Childrens. I would assume there were until I saw otherwise with my own eyes. At Bethesda a gun was no good with the only real danger, which was an Alzheimer's patient going completely off the reservation and getting severely violent. In most of those cases, Sasha would settle those people down in 30 seconds or less, so just the concept of having a gun was a feeble joke. To look at it from the other side, what possible situation could you REASONABLY expect to run into in a hospital with 24/7 video security where you could discharge your weapon and reasonably claim fear of death or GBH??

Do we not remember the hospital patient just a few months ago who broke a pipe off his bed and cleared out the whole nurses station with people running for their lives, I just saw it again on tv last week, well folks, I don't run anymore, heck I can't even walk fast so I'm glad I wasn't there.
I have been involved with the U of M hosp. for the last 3 1/2 years, for 2 years on a daily basis, That's all I'm going to say about that.

John

[Seismic Sam]

Thank you for your input, Old Guy, and did the EFFEN Gopher Bar chloresterol treatment help any??

That being said however, I am STILL having trouble visualizing a jury, ANY jury, finding you not guilty after bringing a gun into a hospital and shooting somebody, PARTICULARLY a patient, regardless of the circumstances. For the guy who broke the pipe off the bed, that sounds like diminished capacity right off the bat. About the only scenario I can visualize is being at Bethesda, seeing a skel rip a sharps container off the wall, and then come after you to shut you up. Them's mighty thin pickings to be betting your freedom and right to carry a gun on....

[andrewP]

For the guy who broke the pipe off the bed, that sounds like diminished capacity right off the bat.

Diminished mental capacity does not mean incapable of causing death or great bodily harm, and in fact may mean less predictable/more likely to be the cause of such. I'm not suggesting that it'd be good to shoot someone like that, but it's certainly within the realm of the possible that it'd be legally justifiable, depending on the specific circumstances.

[Seismic Sam]

For the guy who broke the pipe off the bed, that sounds like diminished capacity right off the bat.

Diminished mental capacity does not mean incapable of causing death or great bodily harm, and in fact may mean less predictable/more likely to be the cause of such. I'm not suggesting that it'd be good to shoot someone like that, but it's certainly within the realm of the possible that it'd be legally justifiable, depending on the specific circumstances.

That's the problem here. People here are talking "legally justifiable", when the only significant case on the books is Martin Treptow, and he got royally screwed. Yes, there are many differences between what happened to him and an imaginary case here, but really, can you honestly say that you could shoot a deranged patient when you could simply run away and let security handle it a minute later??

[xd ED]

There's 2 video clips of the hospital attack from surveillance video HERE. The video at the bottom of the page shows the attacker beating a woman with the metal pipe/ tube while she's on the floor….the clip lasts 20 seconds and leaves the woman unable to walk. Quite some time later, when the police caught up with this guy, thier less than lethal tasers were unable to stop him.

[ttousi]

I would be more concerned with the walk from parking lot to hospital rather than within the hospital.

[old guy]

For the guy who broke the pipe off the bed, that sounds like diminished capacity right off the bat.

Diminished mental capacity does not mean incapable of causing death or great bodily harm, and in fact may mean less predictable/more likely to be the cause of such. I'm not suggesting that it'd be good to shoot someone like that, but it's certainly within the realm of the possible that it'd be legally justifiable, depending on the specific circumstances.

That's the problem here. People here are talking "legally justifiable", when the only significant case on the books is Martin Treptow, and he got royally screwed. Yes, there are many differences between what happened to him and an imaginary case here, but really, can you honestly say that you could shoot a deranged patient when you could simply run away and let security handle it a minute later??

Did you not read the the part where I said I can no longer run and neither can my Wife who is the reason I was there, nor do I have a large dog to defend me.

John

[dupa]

John's has about 175 inpatient beds and a daily census is around 135 ... 1 patient has an adverse event. you're more likely to pick up an infection and die slowly at home than being beaten to death by a pipe swinging patient.