22 ammo shortage ease up yet?

[BC98]

This is ********, pure and simple. Manufacturing a .22 long round is fairly simplistic compared to lets say a Tesla Model 3 electric car. When exactly does it make sense for a manufacturer to invest in increasing rim fire production capacity in your wonderful view of things? 50 years from now?

If Tesla is anything like the other automakers, they don't "manufacture" nearly anything on their vehicles. They outsource to suppliers and are, basically, assemblers. Ammunition plants produce nearly EVERYTHING that goes into their ammunition. There are internal and external logistics that have to be managed when you're talking about increasing capacity. Also, remember that rimfire isn't the only ammunition vying for capital in plants. Pistol, shotshell, and rifle are all trying to get money to buy equipment or make improvements.

How big of an investment would they have to make in MODERN machinery to recoup their losses and make a profit in today's market? If you ask me, it's an oligopolists market that will never change until more competitors enter it, and less ATK's (Vista Outdoor) exist in the world.

"Vista Outdoor was the top seller of ammunition in the United States from 2008 to 2013. As of March 2015, it controlled about 40% of the ammunition market."

Just a conservative guess but I would imagine that you're in the neighborhood of millions of dollars to retrofit and modernize those load lines. You're only getting farther behind once you take one old line down while the new one is getting set up. Most companies require an equipment payoff of a year (maybe a year and a half on the outside). In that year, you're only paying off equipment and not making money. Part of the justification for the new equipment is that it's a sizable improvement in capacity over current. JJ's point was not the equipment is inefficient, it's that nobody makes an off the shelf solution. Everything has to be re-engineered, adding time.

But if it's so easy, feel free to open up an ammo plant and become competition to the Vista's and Freedom Groups out there. You can show them how it's done...

[BigBlue]

I'll pay .10 a round to any retailer. Its still cheap in the grand scheme

Still, with .223 at 23 cents a round, it is hard to understand why .22 would cost 10 cents a round. Sure, the process is different, but for the .223 you have to make the primer separately and the case and bullet are WAY more massive.

Does the rest of the world use as much .22 as USA does? Or is this rimfire sort of an American oddity?

BB

You paying .10 a round isn't the same as it costing .10 a round. By the time you touch it, its changed hands 3 times.

.223 can be made on high speed automated loaders, .22lr still has a higher percentage of manual labor associated with it.

Yes the .223 has a separate primer, but, again, when you can automate a portion of the process, its more efficient.

Help me understand what about .22 production is manual that is automated on centerfire?

[MJY65]

Still, with .223 at 23 cents a round, it is hard to understand why .22 would cost 10 cents a round. Sure, the process is different, but for the .223 you have to make the primer separately and the case and bullet are WAY more massive.

Does the rest of the world use as much .22 as USA does? Or is this rimfire sort of an American oddity?

BB

You paying .10 a round isn't the same as it costing .10 a round. By the time you touch it, its changed hands 3 times.

.223 can be made on high speed automated loaders, .22lr still has a higher percentage of manual labor associated with it.

Yes the .223 has a separate primer, but, again, when you can automate a portion of the process, its more efficient.

Help me understand what about .22 production is manual that is automated on centerfire?

I don't know either. I've watched the videos of rimfire production, and it looks like QC, adding bulk materials to machines and distributing the primer slurry are done manually. I think those steps are also done manually in centerfire production. Whether the primer is made separately, or as a step in the line, the slurry still has to be put in place the same way.

[BC98]

Help me understand what about .22 production is manual that is automated on centerfire?

Centerfire brass is primed and loaded on separate machines. There would be manual movement and transfer of bins from the priming equipment to the loader. Not needed on a rimfire line.

However, a rimfire line would have more manual checking/manipulation of components during the loading process.

[MJY65]

Help me understand what about .22 production is manual that is automated on centerfire?

Centerfire brass is primed and loaded on separate machines. There would be manual movement and transfer of bins from the priming equipment to the loader. Not needed on a rimfire line.

Seems like that makes rimfire production MORE automated. One less step.

[BC98]

Seems like that makes rimfire production MORE automated. One less step.

See the edit on my response.

[Duff-Man]

I know there was a video on youtube that shows rimfire manufacturing.

[karlobag]

Here's a nice video. CCI can make 4 million rounds a day.

http://outdoorchannel.com/video.aspx?g= ... Xz2Re1Ltl1

Also an article from American Rifleman that kind of talks about some of the problems with manufacturing .22LR and other rimfire ammo.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/article ... 2-rimfire/

[Duff-Man]

Here's a nice video. CCI can make 4 million rounds a day.

http://outdoorchannel.com/video.aspx?g= ... Xz2Re1Ltl1

Also an article from American Rifleman that kind of talks about some of the problems with manufacturing .22LR and other rimfire ammo.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/article ... 2-rimfire/

The first one was the one I was thinking of.

[LarryP]

Well crap! Seems like those people could move a little faster!!

[karlobag]

Well crap! Seems like those people could move a little faster!!

+1

[Ironbear]

This is ********, pure and simple. Manufacturing a .22 long round is fairly simplistic compared to lets say a Tesla Model 3 electric car. When exactly does it make sense for a manufacturer to invest in increasing rim fire production capacity in your wonderful view of things? 50 years from now?

As the video shows, just because something is mechanically simple to perform, doesn't mean it is simple to do consistently and repeatably, at a high rate. As the video article states, they are making 4 million rounds a day! If that is three shifts, that is about 140 rounds per second!!! Keeping the system fed it a huge problem! With 40 grain bullets, they should be running about 11½ ton of lead a day!

Any high speed manufacturing line is amazing to watch.

[PhilaBOR]

And a Tesla doesn't blow up if you make a mistake. You have large quantities of primer material and gunpowder. Lots of time and effort go into designing a factory that doesn't go bang when you expect a whirr.

[BigBlue]

In the .22LR sightings thread it sounds like some stores are starting to be able to keep some in stock. I bet this turns the corner real quick once the shelves are no longer universally bare. People will see it is available and not feel like they need to grab the last box every time. And the resellers will cease to function.

[photogpat]

In the .22LR sightings thread it sounds like some stores are starting to be able to keep some in stock. I bet this turns the corner real quick once the shelves are no longer universally bare. People will see it is available and not feel like they need to grab the last box every time. And the resellers will cease to function.

And guys will quit posting on the Internet every time they see it, thus triggering a run, and a bare shelf.