Hey ERUD (and others): Tell us about long range shooting.

[MJY65]

Following up on the other thread, I'm sure there are at least a few of us that would like to hear more about long range shooting competitions. It certainly seems like you are pretty active in it.

My question is how to practice/prepare for it. With the lack of long distance ranges around, it seems like the only way to shoot those distances is to actually be in the competition. Obviously, that's pretty intimidating for a new guy. It would be nice to get a feel for it in a less formal setting.

How do you practice?

[farmerj]

Training I did in the past was putting a marker on the end of the muzzle and letting a piece of paper rest against the tip. Done correctly, you will draw a figure 8 on the paper. That's your natural breathing and wobble.

Try to time the shot breaking at the center where the lines cross.


Dime trick on the barrel. Helps with trigger squeeze.

Practice reading wind. Watch the trees, dust, grass, flags. If you've got a anemometer, that's great or compare to nws data.

Cardio. I would at least walk regularly more.

Practice getting into and out of positions. And I'd do this with the timer running. You need to learn to pace yourself and shots. Also how to manipulate the sling to your benefit.

I haven't shot a high-power match since before my divorce. The desire to do much of anything with guns got sucked out of me by cops and courts. But those are the routines I'd work.

[MJY65]

^^^

Definitely good tips. Do you actually do any live fire at long distance between matches? It seems like a lot of ranges either don't have the facilities or won't allow long distance shooting on an individual basis.

[farmerj]

I tried. But most of it was at 100 yd local stuff. I tried a range that had 200 & 300 yard lines, but the stupid was strong in too many folks driving around the range barricade when you worked the long range.

I was going through my range books the other day by chance and that's where most of my good starting points came from. All my adjusts are well documented. From 200 to 1000 yards.

The shooting is only 10% of the task. Wind, mirage etc all need to be kept practiced. Physical conditioning as well. Both very perishable skills.

[Erud]

Following up on the other thread, I'm sure there are at least a few of us that would like to hear more about long range shooting competitions. It certainly seems like you are pretty active in it.

My question is how to practice/prepare for it. With the lack of long distance ranges around, it seems like the only way to shoot those distances is to actually be in the competition. Obviously, that's pretty intimidating for a new guy. It would be nice to get a feel for it in a less formal setting.

How do you practice?

Mike, thanks for the question. I'll answer as best as I can, and am happy to continue if you have any follow-questions.

Everyone does things a little differently, but for me personally, my practice schedule typically runs from around November each year through April. It mainly consists of dry-fire practice on my living room floor with a SCATT electronic trainer attached to my rifle. The model of SCATT that I have is basically little camera that attaches to my rifle barrel that looks for a tiny little scaled target that I have hanging on the wall 10 meters away. The aiming black on the little target is about 1/3" big, and is scaled to accurately represent the sight picture I would see shooting at the NRA 600-yard target at 600 yards - the same target I shot at over the weekend in Lacrosse. The camera records everything that happens, and inputs the data into my computer in real time. After a shot is taken, it shows me everything from 6 seconds before the shot broke through 2 seconds after. It is extremely useful info, and can help expose tiny flaws in position and technique. Here are a couple of screen shots from the best 20-shot string I ever fired on the SCATT, just so you can see what the data looks like. First is the summary for the whole match, and the second is the trace from the best shot:




I shoot a 20-shot match on the SCATT 3-4 times per week during the cold months to keep sharp. I also try to shoot the winter 300 meter Highpower and 50-yard smallbore leagues held at Minneapolis Rifle Club as much as my schedule allows. Starting usually in mid-december and running into late March or Early April, I can usually shoot one of those 2 most Saturdays. Once the season starts up in April or May, I really do not practice much at all, due to time constraints, and the number of matches I shoot. If everything is going good, I stay pretty sharp just with the sheer volume of rounds that I shoot on weekends at matches.

For people wanting to get out and practice, there are organized weekly practices at various local clubs during the warm months. Elk River Sportsman's club has a very successful weekly 600-yard F-Class league that shoots one night a week. GRRC in Harris also has an organized practice. Minneapolis Rifle Club has a traditional Highpower(3-position shooting) practice one night per week also, and I believe MNGuntalk member Rip Van Winkle still runs a weekly 200-yard Highpower league/practice at the Post 435 range down past Lakeville. If you are willing to do a little homework and driving, there are lots of opportunities to shoot. I do not normally attend any of these events, but I know the people that run them and could provide contact info for any of them if anyone wants to check one out. The clubs will all have their own rules for what they need in order for you to be able to shoot, and it'll be up to you to make sure you meet those rules.

Generally speaking, any practice that employs good fundamentals is good practice, regardless of the distance you are shooting, or if you are even actually shooting at all. Dry-fire is a great way to pin down things like position, trigger control, sight alignment, etc. .22 rifles at 50 yards or air rifles at 10 meters can be very challenging and a great way to develop skills. Shooting a .22 at 200 yards is very similar to shooting a 155-grain Palma bullet out of a .308 at 1000 yards, as far as the way the wind affects the bullet.

Hopefully this is helpful. Like I said, I can definitely get into more detail if you (or anyone) has any more specific questions.

Erik

[MJY65]

Wow! That's a pretty spiffy electronic target!

I don't think I could realistically devote the time to travel to very many high power matches. Might have to modify my goals and work on rimfire closer to home.

[yukonjasper]

try as I might, I can't get a price for the Scatt Trainer. My work computer and my phone are not providing a price and the sites I can get to are saying I need to call.

Can you tell me the approximate price for the Scatt Trainer?

[Erud]

try as I might, I can't get a price for the Scatt Trainer. My work computer and my phone are not providing a price and the sites I can get to are saying I need to call.

Can you tell me the approximate price for the Scatt Trainer?

The SCATT is a pretty serious training tool, and as such, they charge a pretty serious price for them. New ones start at $1050 for the basic USB model, and go up to around $1800 for the MX02 which is the version that uses a camera instead of IR light signals. I occasionally see used USB models go up for sale in the $800-$900 range. There aren't a lot of people that are going to be willing to shell out that kind of money for one, but there really isn't anything else that can do what it does. That said, you can get in extremely effective practice at home just by dry firing at a dot on the wall, etc and paying attention to the basics.

[yukonjasper]

I guess I look at it as, as you say, the only way to really get that sort of feedback without having a range to go to. By the time you factor in the drive time, ammo membership dues, it starts to make sense. I don't think there is any great practice other than live fire since I assume you need to understand the recoil and the effects that the actual experience has on your body. It is frustrating if you don't live out in a rural area that allows for you to set up a range that is easily accessible.

I'd like to do some practice with the .223 bolt I just picked up prior to doing some varminting with it. Much respect for you guys who do the long distant stuff well.

[farmerj]

shoot the appleseed's then. Basically the same course but short range with .22LR

[OldmanFCSA]

I shoot 1000 yard FCSA Match competitions using a 50BMG target rifle.
I have 2 rifles, an ArmaLite AR-50 and a State Arms Shorty, both have been re-barreled by me with 34" Feddersen 5R chrome-moly bull barrels.
I load my own ammo with Lehigh 510-170's being my favorite projectile - 808 grains of solid brass in a bore-rider style.
I use V.V. 20N29 or Reloder50. V.V. 20N29 requires ammo to be heated to 120 degrees for consistent ignition. (Reason for switching to Reloder50.)
I regularly shoot 5 to 6 inch 5-shot groups and finish up with 9 inch groups during heavy wind conditions.
We shoot regardless of condition as long as targets remain in frames and pasters stay on.
We use scopes, I use Leupold Mark 4 8.5X25X50 LRT on both rifles.
(I wish I had ERUD's eyes and capabilities !!)
I will be shooting the World Championships at the NRA Whittington Center near Raton, NM, July 2nd thru the 4th.
I will be observing the "King of 2 Mile" shoot July 1st & 2nd - targets out to 2500 yards this year, 3500 yards next year.
I am planning on competing next year in 2-mile competition.
Last week, I competed at a Match near Alliance, NE and finished 2nd in Score and 2nd in Group and 3rd in 2-Gun. Was beat by 1 point in score.
At World I will be shooting Heavy and Unlimited Classes using my Heavy AR-50 Gun for both classes.
Wind at Alliance was Variable and Gusting to 34mph, with cloudy in morning and HOT in afternoon.
Scores are based on a 2-day average, reversing shoot order each day. http://www.fcsa.org
Any questions: ask.

[MJY65]

Oldman,

How long was the process to get there? I'm sure you have spent years at the range working your way up to be able to shoot at that distance. At some point, you had to have practiced with live rounds before a competing. I guess my point is that I don't really see any ranges that offer the opportunity to do that unless you are already part of a league/competition. It sounds like a lot of fun, but tough to get started.

[Boone]

You might want to checkout AIM Precision, they offer some courses that might be of value to you. There aren't many ranges here that allow "long range" shooting. But, networking with people with land is beneficial.

[Erud]

Oldman,

How long was the process to get there? I'm sure you have spent years at the range working your way up to be able to shoot at that distance. At some point, you had to have practiced with live rounds before a competing. I guess my point is that I don't really see any ranges that offer the opportunity to do that unless you are already part of a league/competition. It sounds like a lot of fun, but tough to get started.

Mike,
You are making a mountain out of a molehill. There are 3 clubs in the north metro that have weekly organized practice sessions where non-members are welcome to participate. Just get ahold of one or all of them and see what you have to do to come out and shoot with them. It's just a group of people of varying skill levels shooting rifles together. You might run into a few people that are serious high-level competitors, but they will always be outnumbered by the guys that don't compete at all, and just like to shoot practices for fun. It's no big deal.

[MJY65]

There are 3 clubs in the north metro that have weekly organized practice sessions where non-members are welcome to participate. Just get ahold of one or all of them and see what you have to do to come out and shoot with them.

Eric,

That sounds good. I was just looking at the ERSC website but didn't see those sessions. Is that one of the clubs you had in mind? Maybe I'm looking at the wrong section on the site.