Comp Etiquette at indoor ranges.

[crbutler]

Seems I hit a sore spot.

I still stand by what I said.

I used to shoot at most of the indoor ranges in the metro when I lived in the metro. BPR was the main one. I started up there before Roger had the no mag dump/rapid shooting rule and he started that for a reason. Had the same at Bills robbinsdale and armored fire/bills north. Had that experience in New Ulm as well back when. Pretty much all indoor ranges have issues with it.

Outdoors, if you have your own bay, go for whatever floats your boat. Then you can present and fire, etc.

Hate to say it, but train like you plan is a BS thing to say about indoor range shooting. You are not moving, you are not taking cover, and you are not presenting the weapon.

Shooting a SBR with comp is showing off at an indoor range, it's saying look at me and my unusual gun. Any NFA item is at a public indoor range. What functional goal are you getting doing that in a public setting? A suppressor is kind of saying the same, at least until they become common, but at least you are not disturbing others.

The .223 is not a sub 100 yard rifle, nor is the AR platform a short distance item. I have shot enough 3-400 yard prairie dogs to know better. It's been a while, but the M16 I was issued was zeroed at 200 yards according to the sights... Maybe police doctrine and training is that way, and I will admit 3 gun shooting is often done at short distance, but that is not because the rifle was designed for that, and frankly if you can hit a target at 100, it's easy to hit one at 10.

Honestly, what rifle work worth doing at a indoor range is easily done with a .22 rimfire rifle. Pistol, that is much more practical indoor, but still, I think folks would have issues If I showed up and shot my comped 9x25 race gun there. It was obnoxious enough that I was asked (not told) to not shoot it at BPR during the winter matches.

Shooting for function testing may be sensible wherever is closest, but somehow I would not want to plunk down $15 or whatever to shoot 1-5 shots then leave. Also, most outdoor ranges are open in the winter. Maybe not as comfy, but I have shot at SCAPSA, MGF, Oakdale, Faribault, and key cities in the winter.

I can understand the desire to get out and shoot.

I am not saying it should be banned.

I am still saying shooting indoors at short distances with a comped centerfire rifle around other people is boorish behavior. Some uncomped guns are horrible too, such as SBRs and true magnum rifles. You can get plenty of trigger time with rimfire rifles and standard pistols without making everyone else uncomfortable. For the true case where you have no other gun, it would be forgivable, but frankly I don't know anyone who has only one gun and that is a comped AR, even those who have boating accidents regularly.

[atomic41]

Since you're asking opinions...you said you are taking new shooters and that is a great opportunity to get more people interested in firearms. Doing this should be done with those shooters' experience in mind. I would do everything possible to make their experience positive and welcoming. This means keeping them comfortable, and wanting more...not miserable and scared of the situation. Putting a blast device on will help, a flaming pig or similar.

[atomic41]

Hate to say it, but train like you plan is a BS thing to say about indoor range shooting. You are not moving, you are not taking cover, and you are not presenting the weapon.

.

This is true for me. I don't go indoor to train because I'm not actually training if I can't move, do holster work, quick target acquisition with rifle, rapid fire, etc. I shoot year round, weekly, as long as it's not super cold or storming. Indoor for me is rare but it's not to train.

[mmcnx2]

I'll play.

IMO an AR for SD is not very optimal, stick with a hand gun.

That said shooting a standard AR at an indoor range is loud but they have separated rifle lanes at some of the new facilities and as long as they are not near me when I'm shooting pistols I don't care. However you start throwing muzzle flash into my lane and I'll politely ask you to stop.

You want to rip through 30 round mags, with a comp'ed AR go to Bill's they have an abundance of mall ninjas, one more will not make a difference.

[Hmac]

Seems I hit a sore spot.

I still stand by what I said.

I used to shoot at most of the indoor ranges in the metro when I lived in the metro. BPR was the main one. I started up there before Roger had the no mag dump/rapid shooting rule and he started that for a reason. Had the same at Bills robbinsdale and armored fire/bills north. Had that experience in New Ulm as well back when. Pretty much all indoor ranges have issues with it.

Outdoors, if you have your own bay, go for whatever floats your boat. Then you can present and fire, etc.

Hate to say it, but train like you plan is a BS thing to say about indoor range shooting. You are not moving, you are not taking cover, and you are not presenting the weapon.

Shooting a SBR with comp is showing off at an indoor range, it's saying look at me and my unusual gun. Any NFA item is at a public indoor range. What functional goal are you getting doing that in a public setting? A suppressor is kind of saying the same, at least until they become common, but at least you are not disturbing others.

The .223 is not a sub 100 yard rifle, nor is the AR platform a short distance item. I have shot enough 3-400 yard prairie dogs to know better. It's been a while, but the M16 I was issued was zeroed at 200 yards according to the sights... Maybe police doctrine and training is that way, and I will admit 3 gun shooting is often done at short distance, but that is not because the rifle was designed for that, and frankly if you can hit a target at 100, it's easy to hit one at 10.

Honestly, what rifle work worth doing at a indoor range is easily done with a .22 rimfire rifle. Pistol, that is much more practical indoor, but still, I think folks would have issues If I showed up and shot my comped 9x25 race gun there. It was obnoxious enough that I was asked (not told) to not shoot it at BPR during the winter matches.

Shooting for function testing may be sensible wherever is closest, but somehow I would not want to plunk down $15 or whatever to shoot 1-5 shots then leave. Also, most outdoor ranges are open in the winter. Maybe not as comfy, but I have shot at SCAPSA, MGF, Oakdale, Faribault, and key cities in the winter.

I can understand the desire to get out and shoot.

I am not saying it should be banned.

I am still saying shooting indoors at short distances with a comped centerfire rifle around other people is boorish behavior. Some uncomped guns are horrible too, such as SBRs and true magnum rifles. You can get plenty of trigger time with rimfire rifles and standard pistols without making everyone else uncomfortable. For the true case where you have no other gun, it would be forgivable, but frankly I don't know anyone who has only one gun and that is a comped AR, even those who have boating accidents regularly.

Complete ********. In my opinion and in my experience.

[Jack's My dog]

Shooting a SBR with comp is showing off at an indoor range, it's saying look at me and my unusual gun. Any NFA item is at a public indoor range. What functional goal are you getting doing that in a public setting? A suppressor is kind of saying the same, at least until they become common, but at least you are not disturbing others.

I am still saying shooting indoors at short distances with a comped centerfire rifle around other people is boorish behavior. Some uncomped guns are horrible too, such as SBRs and true magnum rifles. You can get plenty of trigger time with rimfire rifles and standard pistols without making everyone else uncomfortable. For the true case where you have no other gun, it would be forgivable, but frankly I don't know anyone who has only one gun and that is a comped AR, even those who have boating accidents regularly.

Honest question and at the risk of jacking my own thread-Outside of the volume issue with the SBR (which I may not totally agree with you on, but feel your point is valid) is shooting an NFA item at the range showing off? I see a lot of poor, say boorish, behavior at the range at times, but can't see how in and of itself, using an NFA item in and of itself is in poor taste. Specifically with the silencers, since the address both volume and flash.

I have 1 AR. While it is not my only gun, it is my only AR and it is currently comped. But like I said I will probably be changing that in the very near future. 9x23 comped must be brutal. The dudes running comped 9x19s are loud enough during matches at BPR...lol

[FJ540]

The dudes running comped 9x19s are loud enough during matches at BPR...lol

6.5 grains of Power Pistol in 9mm doesn't need a comp to get some attention. Shock and Awe!

[crbutler]

HMAC you are welcome to disagree, but perhaps you should give me/us a detailed point that my opinion is a problem? Or as you said, unprintable.

Look, maybe I don't take all the tactical classes like you, and I am only a B class shooter in USPSA, so I am far from the top of the heap in that, but I do have most of the fun toys you are talking about, and was on the rifle team in ROTC, so frankly, where am I wrong?

I do a lot of hunting, and routinely use .223 out to 400 yards for varmints out of a AR, none the less! While I am not in the crowd that feels the .223 is a deer gun, I know folks who do and kill them out past 200 with AR's.

In my younger and stupider days I did do strange things like bringing a .416 Rigby to indoor ranges (it ain't a magnum and it's less than 2400 FPS) and one shot did clear the range at Bills... or a JP CTR 02 .223 to one, with a tank brake on it... so I have been an ass about it in the past, and was politely remonstrated to about my behavior. The discussion stuck with me.

I do know that battle sight zero on the M16 is 0-200. The ammo specs are such that out of an M4 (which is a SBR by definition) it should be both accurate and lethal past 400 yards.



Jack, the 9x25 is a 10mm case necked down. Kind of like the .357 SIG, but more so. It's much worse on the sinuses than the 9x23, which is worse than the 9x19's. Volume of gas is what works the comp, and the higher the volume and pressure, the worse it is. Eric, Frank and I were shooting open against each other at BPR in those days and I didn't load ammo one month, so I hauled my old gun, the 9x25 (instead of the 23) as I had ammo. Each shot blew the fluorescent tube light bulbs apart if they were anywhere near me (ask Mike Murphy about it) and Mike asked me not to bring that gun with me anymore. I was told each shot you could see the glass at the back of the range jump. That was with a pistol shooting about 12 grains of powder.

As to my point about NFA weapons, it's essentially that an indoor range is generally a gathering of general public shooters. Most recognize that an SBR, MG, or suppressor are not allowed in general ownership, and in fact most folks when seeing some of my stuff have said "that's illegal" to the point I had the sheriff called on me when I was shooting on private land. Shure, most go "that's cool" and ask to try them, but do we really need to show off our toys in public? I cannot really see a point to it except to show off unless it is a suppressor, but even then most folks take those out in public to show off, and at an indoor range, it sure isn't to allow you to shoot without hearing protection...

[FJ540]

I guess I see range time differently. When I have to pay for a lane, I bring half the safe with me. Hundreds of rounds of ammo. I spend hours there if I'm not on a specific task (testing something). What's in my collection is nothing overtly flashy. Sure, I have some expensive stuff by $650 AR standards, but nothing crazy.

I also go in the daytime so there's less company on the line.

[Hmac]

HMAC you are welcome to disagree, but perhaps you should give me/us a detailed point that my opinion is a problem? Or as you said, unprintable.

Thank you. Yes, I do disagree.

Shooting a SBR with comp is showing off at an indoor range, it's saying look at me and my unusual gun. Any NFA item is at a public indoor range. What functional goal are you getting doing that in a public setting? A suppressor is kind of saying the same, at least until they become common, but at least you are not disturbing others.

Disagree

The .223 is not a sub 100 yard rifle, nor is the AR platform a short distance item. I have shot enough 3-400 yard prairie dogs to know better. It's been a while, but the M16 I was issued was zeroed at 200 yards according to the sights... Maybe police doctrine and training is that way, and I will admit 3 gun shooting is often done at short distance, but that is not because the rifle was designed for that, and frankly if you can hit a target at 100, it's easy to hit one at 10.

Disagree.

I am still saying shooting indoors at short distances with a comped centerfire rifle around other people is boorish behavior. Some uncomped guns are horrible too, such as SBRs and true magnum rifles. You can get plenty of trigger time with rimfire rifles and standard pistols without making everyone else uncomfortable. For the true case where you have no other gun, it would be forgivable, but frankly I don't know anyone who has only one gun and that is a comped AR, even those who have boating accidents regularly.

Utterly disagree.

I do know that battle sight zero on the M16 is 0-200. The ammo specs are such that out of an M4 (which is a SBR by definition) it should be both accurate and lethal past 400 yards.

Disagree. The AR15 is a CQB weapon, especially an SBR. 100 yards and in. The challenge is accurately shooting from the shoulder off hand and presenting from low-ready. Acceptable at any range where I've ever shot.

As to my point about NFA weapons, it's essentially that an indoor range is generally a gathering of general public shooters. Most recognize that an SBR, MG, or suppressor are not allowed in general ownership, and in fact most folks when seeing some of my stuff have said "that's illegal" to the point I had the sheriff called on me when I was shooting on private land. Shure, most go "that's cool" and ask to try them, but do we really need to show off our toys in public? I cannot really see a point to it except to show off unless it is a suppressor, but even then most folks take those out in public to show off, and at an indoor range, it sure isn't to allow you to shoot without hearing protection...

More disagree.

IOW, I found your opinion to be supercilious, condescending, and self-righteous. Apparently, my opinion of your opinion is not printable

[Ghost]

I guess I'm a show off since I'd go to BPR shoot a suppressed SBR at 46 yards or less.

No, actually that's just pretty ignorant of somebody to say. Going to a range shouldn't be a dick measuring contest, get over yourself.

If needed, my SBR with suppressor is my go to home defense weapon.

In general, rifles are far superior to handguns and a much better alternative.

Not very many spots in my house are longer than the rifle bay at BPR so it seems very fitting to shoot it there.

[Randygmn]

Seems I hit a sore spot.

I still stand by what I said.

I used to shoot at most of the indoor ranges in the metro when I lived in the metro. BPR was the main one. I started up there before Roger had the no mag dump/rapid shooting rule and he started that for a reason. Had the same at Bills robbinsdale and armored fire/bills north. Had that experience in New Ulm as well back when. Pretty much all indoor ranges have issues with it.

Outdoors, if you have your own bay, go for whatever floats your boat. Then you can present and fire, etc.

Hate to say it, but train like you plan is a BS thing to say about indoor range shooting. You are not moving, you are not taking cover, and you are not presenting the weapon.

Shooting a SBR with comp is showing off at an indoor range, it's saying look at me and my unusual gun. Any NFA item is at a public indoor range. What functional goal are you getting doing that in a public setting? A suppressor is kind of saying the same, at least until they become common, but at least you are not disturbing others.

The .223 is not a sub 100 yard rifle, nor is the AR platform a short distance item. I have shot enough 3-400 yard prairie dogs to know better. It's been a while, but the M16 I was issued was zeroed at 200 yards according to the sights... Maybe police doctrine and training is that way, and I will admit 3 gun shooting is often done at short distance, but that is not because the rifle was designed for that, and frankly if you can hit a target at 100, it's easy to hit one at 10.

Honestly, what rifle work worth doing at a indoor range is easily done with a .22 rimfire rifle. Pistol, that is much more practical indoor, but still, I think folks would have issues If I showed up and shot my comped 9x25 race gun there. It was obnoxious enough that I was asked (not told) to not shoot it at BPR during the winter matches.

Shooting for function testing may be sensible wherever is closest, but somehow I would not want to plunk down $15 or whatever to shoot 1-5 shots then leave. Also, most outdoor ranges are open in the winter. Maybe not as comfy, but I have shot at SCAPSA, MGF, Oakdale, Faribault, and key cities in the winter.

I can understand the desire to get out and shoot.

I am not saying it should be banned.

I am still saying shooting indoors at short distances with a comped centerfire rifle around other people is boorish behavior. Some uncomped guns are horrible too, such as SBRs and true magnum rifles. You can get plenty of trigger time with rimfire rifles and standard pistols without making everyone else uncomfortable. For the true case where you have no other gun, it would be forgivable, but frankly I don't know anyone who has only one gun and that is a comped AR, even those who have boating accidents regularly.

I own firearms for one reason. It doesn't include hunting, nor playing games. I only own guns for self defense purposes. That's why the only handguns I own are those suitable for conceal carry. I don't own any rimfire weapons. I don't own any shotguns because whatever they can do, a centerfire rifle can do better, with more capacity. My point is, that for me, going to an indoor range is for the time I can't shoot outdoors. I do it to remain proficient. Just because I don't have the ability to move on a static range, doesn't mean I can't have large enough targets, with multiple bullseyes, that allows me to transition from one to another. It allows me ingrain the trigger pull to where it becomes automatic muscle memory. When I go to the range, I bring the firearms I'm most likely to fight with. I may spend a few hours going through at least 500 rounds. Regardless, I try to remain considerate of those around me. The blast shield on my 300blk accomplishes that.

[Jack's My dog]

Since you're asking opinions...you said you are taking new shooters and that is a great opportunity to get more people interested in firearms. Doing this should be done with those shooters' experience in mind. I would do everything possible to make their experience positive and welcoming. This means keeping them comfortable, and wanting more...not miserable and scared of the situation. Putting a blast device on will help, a flaming pig or similar.

I agree, at the very least the comp will come off the AR, but I don't think I am going to start with the "scary black one" on the first trip.

[Holland&Holland]

It is a gun range. Expect stuff to go bang and come prepared for that.

[FJ540]

It is a gun range. Expect stuff to go bang and come prepared for that.

I know, right?

I like seeing other people's toys too.

What happened to "Hey, that's pretty cool! Can I shoot a mag through it?" and commencing to shoot each other's stuff?

My 1911 bias came from some random guy who let me shoot one of his guns.