Why aren't women placing higher in competitive shooting?

[andrewP]

It’s just numbers and odds. I don’t know about every shooting sport out there, but the ones I shoot the ratio of of men to women nationally is probably about 20:1(just a wild guess, but you get the idea).

In my experience, that ratio isn't too far off, at least in the action pistol sports I shoot (mostly USPSA). It's definitely not a lack of ability that keeps women from being on an equal footing in terms of total number of wins. Yes, to be competitive on a high level, you need to achieve a certain level of grip strength, and you have to be able to move well, but neither of those are outside the physical capabilities of women who choose to put in the effort. There just happen to be a LOT more men competing.

One thing I do notice, though, is that the ratio of high performing women:total women is much higher than high performing men:total men.

[Ghost]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Rhode

Kim Rhode has medaled in 6 olympics, she’s done pretty well

[Erud]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Rhode

Kim Rhode has medaled in 6 olympics, she’s done pretty well

True, but only against other women, so it doesn’t really address the question at hand.

[Ghost]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Rhode

Kim Rhode has medaled in 6 olympics, she’s done pretty well

True, but only against other women, so it doesn’t really address the question at hand.

I went based on the title

[Erud]

Didn't even read the thread? C'mon Ghost, you're better than that.

[Ghost]

Didn't even read the thread? C'mon Ghost, you're better than that.

Nah it’s all jibberish

Recent history also suggests that woman can perform alongside men in shooting competitions. At the 1992 Olympic Games in Barcelona, female competitor Shan Zhang of China became the Olympic gold medalist that year in mixed-event skeet competition. Over two days of competition she produced a score of 373 out of 375, a new Olympic and world record. She also became the first woman to topple the men in the history of the Olympic Games' shooting competition. Since that time, no mixed events have been held in an Olympic shooting competition.

In large part, equality for woman at the elite level often comes down to participation numbers where men still far exceed women in the sport.

http://www.usashooting.org/news/2012/2/28/195-usa-shooting-viewpoint--men-vs-women-in-competitive-shooting

[smurfman]

Again, exceptional individual performances in a select few disciplines are being used to determine the abilities of a group. That is not quite what I read the original post as being. I read it as to wishing to know why women do not show up in the winner's circle more often- particularly at the highest levels.

I'll grant that numbers does play a significant role but I wrote my opinion based on a theoretical even number of each sex competing head to head in multiple events over an extended time. If one took the top 5 shooters of each sex in each shooting discipline and graphed out he results based on total number of high over all score, total number of top 3 placements, total aggregate score between sexes, et al, I wager one would see the lines diverge from each other in favor of the men. If broken down into the individual disciplines one would see the same thing though some disciplines would see a
quicker separation than others.

I see this as being particularly true today as women are still using tools basically designed for men and being taught as men are taught.

In the firearm, women are using a tool that has some changes to allow a woman to better adapt to the gun but they are required to adapt rather than having a tool designed specifically to them. As more women participate in the shooting sports this subject will receive more scrutiny and new thoughts and innovations on design will occur which will accentuate womens'' strengths and bolster their weaknesses. In some cases this may not be as great of a factor as others but it is there.

I also expect to see a change in training as more male instructors understand men and women receive, process, and retain information somewhat differently. As/when male instructors realize this and adapt their methods, examples, anecdotes, etc to better fit women students, women's abilities will pick up. An in flux of women shooters should also lead to and increase the number of women instructors who will be better able to help women shooters as well as give insight to male instructors.

Even if these disparaties, as I see them, are addressed, I believe men will have an advantage over women in the big picture. In some disciplines the advantage will be so slight that it will be an impractical distance for a gap to appear but a gap will occur. I believe that there are currently gaps between men and women in the shooting sports and firmly believe that these gaps can be lessened but also believe that the gaps will not be filled.

[Erud]

What sort of equipment changes would you want to see that aren't already available?

[smurfman]

I don't know as I cannot place myself in the exact shoes of a woman nor am I familiar enough with all shooting disciplines to make suggestions on changes there.

In the shotgun (and maybe other long gun sports) I'll guess and say that some design which decreased the weight borne by the arms and upper body and moved it to the trunk and legs would be an example. I'm no engineer nor do I understand body mechanics but as a far out xample to get outside the box of traditional thought would be a long gun of lightweight material with a counterweight that extended over the shoulder to provide the weight to reduce recoil. That way weight would be directed down the body rather than cantilevered to the front where male's physique appears to have a decided advantage. A radical change in design would also likely necessitate a change in rules which would be a different battle.

Other equipment area would be in stock fitting. In watching and talking to several very adept stock fitters, it seems they use the same approach to fitting regardless if male or female. This may work for the masses to a certain point but there are physical differences between the sexes and at the highest levels of competition a very minor deviance can mean regularly winning or merely being a contender.

I am not anti-woman in the shooting sports, far from it. I just believe they have a much larger number of obstacles in their way. Some I can see being mitigated, some not. This is what I see preventing women as a whole reaching paraty with men though there will always be some number of individuals that will overcome these restraints.

I base much of my perspective off my observations from competitive dancing. Looking at the equipment, shoe are worn by both men and women but they are designed very differently. In other words, they weren't merely smaller or larger versions of the same thing due to structural differences of the users. I think firearms fit into this same category as the are also the tools being used by someone of a different body structure than the "norm". i probably confused the issue with this but I hope others can understand my attempt. If not, I did my best but fell short.

[Erud]

I think you may be overthinking this. Many/most of the firearms and gear used for competitive shooting are extremely adjustable and customizable. I'll stick to HP-related sports, since it's what I know. Here is a pic of my rifle:



It's about as adjustable as anyone could ask for. The stock is actually a Smallbore stock that I had my gunsmith put my Barnard action into. Mine is pretty heavy, but I want it that way. A lighter barrel/action combo could shave 3# pretty easily. Mine is a .308, but cartridges all the way down to .223 do well in this game. As Rip Van Winkle mentioned earlier in the thread, Smallbore tends to have a pretty high number of young female shooters, and a lot of them use this same stock, or ones very similar. I have a friend in Utah that also uses this same stock for NRA Long Range matches like I shoot, he is 6'5", 350#. There are also near-limitless options from other manufacturers to get something that fits "just right". Problems with fit are not limited to female shooters, I went through 6 stocks in 3 completely different platforms before I found the right one for me.

Unlike most other sports, I don't believe that there is anything about being female that would limit someone's success in the shooting sports. If there were a way to actually measure it, I doubt if the numbers would break down differently in any significant way between success rates of male vs female shooters, it's just numbers and odds.

[crbutler]

First off, I would think the title of the thread probably makes women upset.

If what is meant is “how do we get more women to place highly in shooting competitions” then it is a bit more reasonable.

I do think that to some extent certain sports do emphasize parts of the skill set of shooting that will handicap women. Biathalon would be one where a good male would likely dominate even a great woman due to its nature. Any sport that has an emphasis on speed or physical

Depending on the particular discipline, there may be issues that preclude the groups being combined.

Then there is the whole competitive bit. Much psychology seems to state that as a whole (in other words, any individual can be an exception) women tend to be less individually competitive and more work together for a common goal. Since shooting is basically an individual event, this will tend to decrease overall participation but not how well any individual does. We also see, even with men a lack of desire to prove that they are not very good when they think they are. Look at this board, I seriously doubt that more than 10% are active competitors at any level, and probably less than half have even tried.

If you don’t enjoy the competition it gets pretty old to know while you may get better, you will never be an elite level competitor and why bother. Look at the action pistol groups. You see the same folks showing up match after match at the top of the heap, but the remaining 2/3’s is very non persistent on a year to year basis.

If you don’t keep folks involved, then they never develop their maximum potential. Add on that women tend to have more recreational choices, and due to kids, typically less free time to devote to recreational pursuits in the years that one can actually achieve at a high level, it’s not surprising to see an achievement gap.

Given this, there are not huge numbers of women shooting, and the odds of a great one being found are even lower yet.

I think that in some sports if the women are not up there with men, you are seeing a selection bias...what Erud is talking about... not enough participants to find the 1 in a 1000 or rarer participant and develop her to her maximum potential.

From my view, trap, skeet, and small bore, and bullseye pistol (NRA) all should be easily female friendly. No need for separate sex events.

Action sports (3 gun, USPSA, IDPA) are more male dominant. The exceptional woman could dominate at all but the highest levels in these, but mostly it needs gender results separation to be fair.

The true athletic events like biathalon or iron man 3 gun would be extremely difficult for a woman to compete head to head with men in the same age and fitness level.

Some events I’m not sure of due to not being familiar enough or good enough to know - like long range and high power. F class should be female friendly, but the rest do have a physical endurance component that I can see.

[Scratch]

First off, I would think the title of the thread probably makes women upset.

If what is meant is “how do we get more women to place highly in shooting competitions” then it is a bit more reasonable
.

Agreed.... Title changed.