Gun store owners, please train your staff.

[Holland&Holland]

So if you hang around enough gun shops you undoubtedly hear stuff said that is dumb and just plain wrong. But sometimes the lack of knowledge that is portrayed as expert opinion is just too much. I happened to have some time to kill on Saturday and went into a local popular store to browse. I am not going to name the store.

At the counter a guy had brought in a beautiful Winchester 94. I do not pretend to Bevan expert on 94s but it was clearly older but in great shape. So take down model with a half round and half octagon barrel so guessing pre 64.

It was stamped for .30 WCF. The guy wanted to know if they carried ammo for it at this store as he wanted to shoot it.

The guy behind tho counter proceeded to tell him no,, that .30 wcf was an old black powder cartridge that is no longer produced and that he likely would not be able to find it anywhere but might be able to have it custom made. (Now that I think about it maybe I am the idiot for not volunteering to custom make 5 boxes for $50 per box).

Anyway, the employee went on to say that these older guns were used to ammo that went proof rather than the sharper crack of today's ammo and with older metallurgy could not be trusted with modern powders.

I know it is poor manners to but in to such a conversation but I could not help myself. I just had to interject to inform the owner that .30 wcf is simply .30-30, very common, very safe to shoot and on the shelf behind the employee. Oh and designed for modern smokeless (non-proof) powders.

[gun_fan111v2]

I just learned something, thanks

[Ghost]

Way to help the guy. Nice job.

[VMAX97]

I learned something too. Curious what the response was from both the customer and the staff member after you rudley butted in and gave this customer the correct information?

[Sigfan220]

I would not expect any gun shop employee to know anything about antique firearms. It's hard enough keeping up with modern calibers. I expect most gun store employees to know enough about modern guns to sell you a gun, that's it. They should not be asked any questions such as this. Even if they had an answer I wouldn't trust them.

[xd ED]

I would not expect any gun shop employee to know anything about antique firearms. It's hard enough keeping up with modern calibers. I expect most gun store employees to know enough about modern guns to sell you a gun, that's it. They should not be asked any questions such as this. Even if they had an answer I wouldn't trust them.

Then the correct answer is: "I don't know, but let me see if I can find out, and we'll both learn something."

[Holland&Holland]

I would not expect any gun shop employee to know anything about antique firearms. It's hard enough keeping up with modern calibers. I expect most gun store employees to know enough about modern guns to sell you a gun, that's it. They should not be asked any questions such as this. Even if they had an answer I wouldn't trust them.

Then the correct answer is: "I don't know, but let me see if I can find out, and we'll both learn something."

I would hardly consider .30-30 to be antique. And yes Ed has the right answer but my gosh this is about as simple as it gets, I mean is there a deer rifle more prolific than a 94 in .30-30?

[Holland&Holland]

I learned something too. Curious what the response was from both the customer and the staff member after you rudley butted in and gave this customer the correct information?

Actually it was well received by both. The employee did not initially believe me and did a quick wiki search to confirm my statement (not that Wiki should be your resource), but after reading that was quite open to my comments. I did suggest to both parties that the book Cartridges of the World is a good read on this very subject if they wanted to explore such a topic further.

The employee did sell the customer a box of Hornady reduced recoil loads. Which the customer turned to me and asked if they would be ok to fire in his gun. I told him that I personally would have no issue with firing any standard off the shelf .30-30 round in it including reduced recoil and went back to my browsing.

[mmcnx2]

Hang around Cabelas or Gander counters and the conversations from their staff will scare the heck out of you. Anything from misleading to dangerously wrong. I've witnessed them sell 357 ammo to someone that just purchased a 38 special revolver, give them 40 mag's for a 9mm and say they will be fine and try to tell a customer that 22 short pistol was due to the barrel length.

[andrewP]

the correct answer is: "I don't know, but let me see if I can find out, and we'll both learn something."

I used to work in sales (not guns), and that was *always* my answer when I didn't know something that a customer needed to know. There is just no point in making stuff up; you may not get "caught" today or tomorrow, but eventually you will be, and when you are, you're basically guaranteeing that the customer in question won't buy from you, and will probably tell their friends about their bad experience. Also, people generally appreciate honesty and a willingness to help, so you're really not losing anything by admitting that you don't have an answer off the top of your head as long as you're capable of consulting resources to find the right answer.

[BigBlue]

This discussion of 30-30 brings up a question I've always had about the round... Why is this almost universally a lever-action round and not found in bolt action rifles? It seems well regarded as a deer round and pretty popular so I'd think someone would make bolt actions out of it.

As a side note, the one gun I want from my dad's hunting stuff is a Winchester '94 30-30. It's what he hunted with way back when he went deer hunting. I hope to someday get to add that to my collection. Perhaps it is because it is the one gun of his I never shot when I was a kid.

[Holland&Holland]

Hang around Cabelas or Gander counters and the conversations from their staff will scare the heck out of you. Anything from misleading to dangerously wrong. I've witnessed them sell 357 ammo to someone that just purchased a 38 special revolver, give them 40 mag's for a 9mm and say they will be fine and try to tell a customer that 22 short pistol was due to the barrel length.

I have seen plenty of that at Cabela's and Gander, I guess I have come to expect that at any "big Box" store. Similar to having computer questions at Best Buy. This surprised me more because it was such a basic question at a traditional and "professional" gun store. I look at it similar to if you went into a gas station with a service bay and asked the mechanic what gas you can use in your car as your manual states a minimum of 87 octane but they are out of 87 and only have 89 and the mechanic stating your car would be ruined running on that.

[Randygmn]

This happens in every area where customers aren’t informed and looking to learn. It’s incumbent on those in the firearm industry to be informed, because the stakes are so high. And really, in today’s era of digital information being so readily available, there’s just no excuse.

(Also- thanks for the initial post. Those calibers aren’t in my wheelhouse. Outside of primarily NATO calibers, with the exception of 300blk, and modern semi-auto platforms, I’m a neophyte. I enjoy learning new things. Again, thx)

[xd ED]

Hang around Cabelas or Gander counters and the conversations from their staff will scare the heck out of you. Anything from misleading to dangerously wrong. I've witnessed them sell 357 ammo to someone that just purchased a 38 special revolver, give them 40 mag's for a 9mm and say they will be fine and try to tell a customer that 22 short pistol was due to the barrel length.

I have seen plenty of that at Cabela's and Gander, I guess I have come to expect that at any "big Box" store. Similar to having computer questions at Best Buy. This surprised me more because it was such a basic question at a traditional and "professional" gun store. I look at it similar to if you went into a gas station with a service bay and asked the mechanic what gas you can use in your car as your manual states a minimum of 87 octane but they are out of 87 and only have 89 and the mechanic stating your car would be ruined running on that.

My experience has been that you're absolutely correct about big box stores...of any stripe.

It has become my experience that if you have to ask anything more than : 'Where is it? or 'How much is it?' ...(things one can now often learn on a smartphone), then you shouldn't be there alone.

Having witnessed too many incidents of unsafe gun handling, I try to keep a lot of mass between me and any crowded big-box gun counter.

I too have inserted myself into conversations at places like homer's depot after overhearing someone being told things like how to (incorrectly) wire a thermostat, or why the expensive, blinky model will work better than the less expensive models.

Most times both parties are appreciative, as long as one doesn't excessively crunch the onions of the ignorant employee.

[xd ED]

the correct answer is: "I don't know, but let me see if I can find out, and we'll both learn something."

I used to work in sales (not guns), and that was *always* my answer when I didn't know something that a customer needed to know. There is just no point in making stuff up; you may not get "caught" today or tomorrow, but eventually you will be, and when you are, you're basically guaranteeing that the customer in question won't buy from you, and will probably tell their friends about their bad experience. Also, people generally appreciate honesty and a willingness to help, so you're really not losing anything by admitting that you don't have an answer off the top of your head as long as you're capable of consulting resources to find the right answer.

I started my working life at a Radio Shack store, because of an interest in audio equipment. Thing is, about 70% of customer contact was in other areas, particularly electronic hardware/ components, which I initially knew nothing about. I learned early on that many of my regular customers - techies - not unlike gun guys- are willing lo talk your ear off when asked an intelligent question... why they were buying that particular capacitor, what they were building/ fixing ... They taught me, and many inquisitive customers a bunch of stuff. In exchange, I tried hard to find, and stock stuff they'd ask for. I had no problem, with someone I knew to be learned, tapping them on the shoulder to answer another customer's question; gained a lot of respect from both parties, and made a few friends... spent a few late nights in guys' basements listening to them DXing on their ham radios.