HIS true beliefs are back...

Gun related chat that doesn't fit in another forum

HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby dismal on Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:09 pm

This was on change.gov for a while, then deleted.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/

Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.


Of course, having the expired AWB back might not be quite as bad as some other things I've heard...
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby DeanC on Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:31 pm

dismal wrote:Of course, having the expired AWB back might not be quite as bad as some other things I've heard...

Yeah, it wasn't good, but it wasn't horrible. And it had an end.

10 years on, 5 years off, 10 years back on again? It sucks, but there has been so much booga booga it doesn't sound bad. It would still be worth fighting tooth and nail.
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby goalie on Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:54 pm

DeanC wrote:
dismal wrote:Of course, having the expired AWB back might not be quite as bad as some other things I've heard...

Yeah, it wasn't good, but it wasn't horrible. And it had an end.

10 years on, 5 years off, 10 years back on again? It sucks, but there has been so much booga booga it doesn't sound bad. It would still be worth fighting tooth and nail.


Actually, considering that it has been proven that the ban did nothing to deter criminals, implementing it again would be a basic admission that, no, it isn't about the children or safety, it is about disarming law-abiding citizens. Period.

The debate about assault weapons is over to any objective observer. They had a ban. The ban didn't work. Fighting to bring it back tells me you just want to piss on the constitution and MY rights. Anyone who would do that is no better than some KKK piece of trash that would trample the rights of another group......
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby hammAR on Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:27 pm

goalie wrote:Actually, considering that it has been proven that the ban did nothing to deter criminals, implementing it again would be a basic admission that, no, it isn't about the children or safety, it is about disarming law-abiding citizens. Period.


...that's all it has ever been about, it has never really had anything to do with children or safety, that was just the emotional smoke........
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby 1911fan on Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:14 pm

Maybe someone also needs to keep hammering that it was also about keeping blacks unarmed and vulnerable. Maybe the ChosenOne would like to address that question at one of his town meetings.
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby dismal on Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:39 pm

1911fan wrote:Maybe someone also needs to keep hammering that it was also about keeping blacks unarmed and vulnerable. Maybe the ChosenOne would like to address that question at one of his town meetings.


At his press conferences, he only talks to reporters who have been told that they will be called on. I imagine that if He does any more town hall meetings, the screening will be the same.
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby goalie on Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:33 pm

hammAR wrote:
goalie wrote:Actually, considering that it has been proven that the ban did nothing to deter criminals, implementing it again would be a basic admission that, no, it isn't about the children or safety, it is about disarming law-abiding citizens. Period.


...that's all it has ever been about, it has never really had anything to do with children or safety, that was just the emotional smoke........



Yup, but now we have a controlled study. Look before the ban, look at the 10 years of the ban, and look after the ban. The evidence is irrefutable.
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby 1911fan on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:10 am

They don't care about facts, it's all about vision!

You know "visualize whirled pea's"
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby Srigs on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:17 am

1911fan wrote:They don't care about facts, it's all about vision!

You know "visualize whirled pea's"


No, no it is about "Hope (we won't notice) and Change (the culture away from guns)!" :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby David on Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:41 pm

You know what I think gun control is all about? We all know that it's not about crime. Idealists care about theories and feeling good, rather than data and realism. I honestly think that gun control is all about culture. Urban hippies and suburban housewives absolutely HATE seeing someone wearing camo at Trader Joe's, or someone with a goatee and a Remington hat at Target. It's the hunting/fishing/self-reliance/shooting culture they want to get rid of, and going after the guns is the way they do it. They do things that make them feel good, and data on crime isn't a part of that, so why should data be relevant? If they can ban some ugly, mean-looking guns, that's a win all in itself, because they live in a fantasy land anyway. Did thumbhole stocks make any difference? More significantly, do they care? I really don't think they do. They just want to push the "bad" culture around, and every gun law achieves that.

Notice I didn't say anything about liberals or conservatives. While we can have opinions about the respective amounts of realism the average person in either group has, I think gun control is more about how your brain works than whether you're a democrat or a republican.
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby gunflint on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:28 pm

Gun control is about control, not about guns, not about crime. If you really wanted to reduce gun crime all you would have to do is make it so that the use of a firearm during the commission of a felony is a mandatory life sentence. But that would be like prosecuting someone for voter fraud or being an illegal alien.
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby gman1868 on Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:47 pm

More Agenda:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda

One of first moves pushes social issues and others to the top

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/technology/
Supporting Stem Cell Research: President Obama and Vice President Biden believe that we owe it to the American public to explore the potential of stem cells to treat the millions of people suffering from debilitating and life-threatening diseases. Obama is a co-sponsor of the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007, which will allow research of human embryonic stem cells derived from embryos donated (with consent) from in vitro fertilization clinics. These embryos must be deemed in excess and created based solely for the purpose of fertility treatment.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/women/

Reproductive Choice (Abortion)
Supports a Woman's Right to Choose: President Obama understands that abortion is a divisive issue, and respects those who disagree with him. However, he has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women's rights under Roe v. Wade a priority in his Adminstration. He opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in that case.
Preventing Unintended Pregnancy: President Obama was an original co-sponsor of legislation to expand access to contraception, health information, and preventive services to help reduce unintended pregnancies. Introduced in January 2007, the Prevention First Act will increase funding for family planning and comprehensive sex education that teaches both abstinence and safe sex methods. The Act will also end insurance discrimination against contraception, improve awareness about emergency contraception, and provide compassionate assistance to rape victims.
Support for the (Homosexual Community)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/civil_rights/

"While we have come a long way since the Stonewall riots in 1969, we still have a lot of work to do. Too often, the issue of LGBT rights is exploited by those seeking to divide us. But at its core, this issue is about who we are as Americans. It's about whether this nation is going to live up to its founding promise of equality by treating all its citizens with dignity and respect."
-- Barack Obama, June 1, 2007

Expand Hate Crimes Statutes: In 2004, crimes against LGBT Americans constituted the third-highest category of hate crime reported and made up more than 15 percent of such crimes. President Obama cosponsored legislation that would expand federal jurisdiction to include violent hate crimes perpetrated because of race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, or physical disability. As a state senator, President Obama passed tough legislation that made hate crimes and conspiracy to commit them against the law.
Fight Workplace Discrimination: President Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and believes that our anti-discrimination employment laws should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity. While an increasing number of employers have extended benefits to their employees' domestic partners, discrimination based on sexual orientation in the workplace occurs with no federal legal remedy. The President also sponsored legislation in the Illinois State Senate that would ban employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples: President Obama supports full civil unions that give same-sex couples legal rights and privileges equal to those of married couples. Obama also believes we need to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and enact legislation that would ensure that the 1,100+ federal legal rights and benefits currently provided on the basis of marital status are extended to same-sex couples in civil unions and other legally-recognized unions. These rights and benefits include the right to assist a loved one in times of emergency, the right to equal health insurance and other employment benefits, and property rights.
Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage: President Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006 which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples.
Repeal Don't Ask-Don't Tell: President Obama agrees with former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili and other military experts that we need to repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve. Discrimination should be prohibited. The U.S. government has spent millions of dollars replacing troops kicked out of the military because of their sexual orientation. Additionally, more than 300 language experts have been fired under this policy, including more than 50 who are fluent in Arabic. The President will work with military leaders to repeal the current policy and ensure it helps accomplish our national defense goals.
Expand Adoption Rights: President Obama believes that we must ensure adoption rights for all couples and individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. He thinks that a child will benefit from a healthy and loving home, whether the parents are gay or not.
Promote AIDS Prevention: In the first year of his presidency, President Obama will develop and begin to implement a comprehensive national HIV/AIDS strategy that includes all federal agencies. The strategy will be designed to reduce HIV infections, increase access to care and reduce HIV-related health disparities. The President will support common sense approaches including age-appropriate sex education that includes information about contraception, combating infection within our prison population through education and contraception, and distributing contraceptives through our public health system. The President also supports lifting the federal ban on needle exchange, which could dramatically reduce rates of infection among drug users. President Obama has also been willing to confront the stigma -- too often tied to homophobia -- that continues to surround HIV/AIDS.
Empower Women to Prevent HIV/AIDS: In the United States, the percentage of women diagnosed with AIDS has quadrupled over the last 20 years. Today, women account for more than one quarter of all new HIV/AIDS diagnoses. President Obama introduced the Microbicide Development Act, which will accelerate the development of products that empower women in the battle against AIDS. Microbicides are a class of products currently under development that women apply topically to prevent transmission of HIV and other infections.

and of course

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/

Crime and Law Enforcement
Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby sochr000 on Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:22 pm

I want to know how everyone proposes to make guns childproof? Have calculus questions(discriminatory against "oppressed" people)? A key(like that'll stop a child)? Just make the grips so big that only big hands can hold them(midgets are going to be PI$$3D)?

I don't know exactly how they plan to magically childproof guns, but if any of you remember your childhood as well as I do, my grandmother always had us kids open her "Child-safe" pill bottles, they're really just old-people safe.
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby TC95GT on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:07 pm

"While we have come a long way since the Stonewall riots in 1969, we still have a lot of work to do. Too often, the issue of LGBT rights is exploited by those seeking to divide us. But at its core, this issue is about who we are as Americans. It's about whether this nation is going to live up to its founding promise of equality by treating all its citizens with dignity and respect."
-- Barack Obama, June 1, 2007


"...when white will embrace what is right." - Rev. Joseph Lowery at President Obama's Inauguration.
"It is not enough to just obey Big Brother, you must love him, too." 1984 by George Orwell
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Re: HIS true beliefs are back...

Postby nyffman on Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:06 am

Forget it Greg, that's not the Rev. Joseph Lowery that he thought he knew. :roll:
our quarrel is not about the value of freedom per se, but stems from our opinion of our fellow men … a man’s admiration of absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for those around him --Alexis de Tocqueville--
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