Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby Paul on Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:03 am

White Horseradish wrote:There is no reason to expect any of those services. In my experience they do not provide them. Police have refused to come out to my car accident and did absolutely nothing when my car was stolen. The fire department seems to show up for medical emergencies before police. Don't know what they do for what not.


Well, I realize that I may take this personally, but it is not always fair to generalize/categorize all police based on your experiences. Many of the guys on this board become very defensive regarding stereotypes/broad general statements regarding permit holders... No difference, everyone has their own good and bad experiences.

I can not intelligently comment on your personal experiences as I was not there, or maybe I was...? Either way, don't know the circumstances of your car accident. What did you expect to happen with your stolen car? Often times nothing more can be done than a simple report (possible video recordings depending where it was and so on) and entering it as a stolen vehicle so it will come back stolen in the DVS/NCIC system. There is no red bat phone we can pick up and have every law enforcement officer in the state looking for your specific vehicle... Too many people, too many cars, too much other stuff going on.

Medical emergencies? In my experience 95% + of the time I arrive before paramedics/fire. We are mobile, they are usually not.

That's just my experience.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby White Horseradish on Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:00 am

user842 wrote:Well, I realize that I may take this personally, but it is not always fair to generalize/categorize all police based on your experiences. Many of the guys on this board become very defensive regarding stereotypes/broad general statements regarding permit holders... No difference, everyone has their own good and bad experiences.
I have had few truly bad experiences with police, and they were in New York and New Jersey. (I really do have to say that Minnesota police officers seem to be way better than their East Coast colleagues in many respects) Most of the rest were just police being unable to do anything. A few were just silly, like being pulled over for yielding to the police cruiser.

user842 wrote:I can not intelligently comment on your personal experiences as I was not there, or maybe I was...? Either way, don't know the circumstances of your car accident. What did you expect to happen with your stolen car? Often times nothing more can be done than a simple report (possible video recordings depending where it was and so on) and entering it as a stolen vehicle so it will come back stolen in the DVS/NCIC system. There is no red bat phone we can pick up and have every law enforcement officer in the state looking for your specific vehicle... Too many people, too many cars, too much other stuff going on.
As far as the accident, some moron ran a red light and hit me. When I called 911 I was asked if I was bleeding. When I said I wasn't, they told me nobody would come and I need to go to the station(nice trick with the car not being mobile) and pick up a report form which then I would have to fill out myself and mail it in. It woulda been nice if there was somebody there, since the woman reeked like a beer keg, to me it seemed a good idea to get her off the road.

As far as a stolen car, you call that in, and they will tell you to call the impound lot and have it put on the list. Police are not involved at all. There is a lot of this self-service kinda stuff going on. Gang graffiti is to be reported to some obscure city department, and I am responsible for taking pictures and sending them in. That one surprised me, I thought the information on gangs in the area would be useful.

To be fair, sometimes police do get there. When a drunk in a stolen car wrecked both my and my wife's car (parked in front of the house) they did respond. About an hour and a half after the call. The drunk was long gone, and as far as I can tell there was no attempt to find him.

user842 wrote:Medical emergencies? In my experience 95% + of the time I arrive before paramedics/fire. We are mobile, they are usually not.

That's just my experience.
Maybe it's different by location?

I think there are some general deficiencies in how policing is done these days, the main one being the really thin stretching of resources. When I went to the station after the accident I learned an interesting tidbit. The entire Northeast Minneapolis was covered by only three cars that night.

There are objective reasons for why there is no reason to expect a whole lot of help from police, and it is not because they are a bunch of lazy jackasses. However, knowing the reasons doesn't change the fact that you have to be in really deep sewage to see real help. And sometimes not even then, like the guy who got stomped half to death and was told that there would not be an investigation. As far as I can tell, unless there's a body or at least some blood, it's not really worth the phone call.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby Paul on Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:16 am

Sorry you had some bad experiences... I think it is reasonable to say that Minnesota departments often times run differently than departments in other states. I can also say this from experience, have worked in another state... (and no, not just in Wisconsin or the other bordering ones :lol: )

You will also find that policies vary from department to department. I, for example, have never worked in a place where a report was not taken for a stolen vehicle, and was left to the victim to continuously call an impound lot. However, I have worked for a place that does not physically respond to a lot of calls (an example being a gas drive off with no video/photos available). The same results are achieved without wasting the resources to have an officer drive to the gas station. The latter, in my opinion, is an example of good management and use of resources.

I think you are right regarding resources... Many departments like Mpls have to prioritize calls and responses because they do not have enough bodies on the street to respond to everything... Unfortunately it is just the way it is sometimes.

I also think that with some of the very large departments (at least from what I have experienced) officers can get lost in the shuffle of management. I don't know what better alternative their is when dealing with a large city like Mpls/St. Paul, Los Anegleses, Chicago, New York and so on.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby hammAR on Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:33 am

user842 wrote:I don't know what better alternative their is when dealing with a large city like Mpls/St. Paul, Los Anegleses, Chicago, New York and so on.


...provide Spetsnaz training for the neighborhood vigilantes...... :rotf:



...I'm joking....mostly.....
however, with the economy, lack of redistribution checks, and all of the "tensions" being high in this country,
IF rioting/civil war commences as predicted by some, the average folks on the street are going to have to fend for and protect themselves........
LEO's, First Responders, and many other folks will be put in a position similar to New Orleans, do I protect my family or do I protect others.......
I am not attempting to cast dispersions, but with the under manned forces around now, there will be some tough decisions that will have to be made by individuals......

sorry for the diversion-thread drift, now back to the normal thread...................... :cheers:
All men are created equal....It's what they do from there that matters!.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby Paul on Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:52 am

hammAR -

I totally agree with you, that being said it is totally unrelated to the comparisons of traffic accidents and theft reports.

Personally, I think it is highly likely that in my lifetime their will be some form of civil unrest, riots, or other events that will force people to defend themselves and there homes to a large degree. Without sounding too doom and gloom or like a conspiracy guy, I can say that I have taken small steps to prepare if such an incident were to occur... pertaining to food, supplies, ammo and so on to make sure that I can be self sufficient and safe for a period of time.

Again... I do not want to come across as an extremist, and am not hoarding supplies, but the reality is that worrying about these things once an incident occurs will leave you out in the cold. If riots break out it will be too late to run to Gander Mountain to buy a few boxes of ammo for home defense (the scarcity of ammo now is a good example).

Relating this to working in law enforcement, it is a tough call to choose between your job and bunkering down and protecting the family... Especially given you would be working 20 hours a day. I can say that my intention (at least at the moment not knowing what circumstances they would be) is to take what I want from my house (probably including the wife and kids :D ) and go to my parents to ride it out with them. I am not too worried about the majority of material possessions I have, it can all be replaced.

That's just my .02 off topic opinion.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby elmerfuddem on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:53 am

:|
How did this thread get here?
"Hurrah, boys, we've got them! We'll finish them up and then go home to our station." Lt. Col G.A. Custer June 25, 1876.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby White Horseradish on Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:57 am

user842 wrote: it is totally unrelated
Thread drift? Here? Surely you jest! :mrgreen:

user842 wrote: Personally, I think it is highly likely that in my lifetime their will be some form of civil unrest, riots, or other events that will force people to defend themselves and there homes to a large degree. Without sounding too doom and gloom or like a conspiracy guy, I can say that I have taken small steps to prepare if such an incident were to occur... pertaining to food, supplies, ammo and so on to make sure that I can be self sufficient and safe for a period of time.


Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded ***********.

:evil:
"I have come to kick a** and chew bubblegum." <racks shotgun> "And I'm all out of bubblegum."

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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby elmerfuddem on Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:03 pm

Wear tight fitting shoes, build a bunker.
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=28596
"Hurrah, boys, we've got them! We'll finish them up and then go home to our station." Lt. Col G.A. Custer June 25, 1876.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby Paul on Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:08 pm

elmerfuddem wrote:Wear tight fitting shoes, build a bunker.
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=28596



Hmmm... Might be best to avoid that, don't want to end up on any government lists. ;)

Although given the way things are these days, being here is probably enough to get that done. Oh well.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby bsr101 on Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:10 pm

I am proud to present the Red Green Special!

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is the funnist thing I've seen on the web since the story of the guy tasering himself. By all means, please continue.

TPG
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby Vlad on Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:57 pm

White Horseradish wrote:Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded ***********.

:evil:


Nice Tool Reference. One of my favorite songs, they have an outstanding rhythm section.
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby WWJD on Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:15 pm

EJSG19 wrote:Nah don't ban somebody just because he's been banned from every other forum site I can find. Its only a matter of time and things will work themselves out. The endless chain of PM's which are nothing but nonsense and circular arguments avoiding the fact that somebody has too much time on their hands and acts like the world is against them when they are really the only thing wrong with the situation...

Oh, and yes I do drop trow to the ankles and stand proudly while I pee. That way I don't get any wee-wee on the trousers, and the significant other stays happy while doing the laundry. If you don't like that, well tough. Having cleared the air on that one, I'm still not sure how that is relevant to my pointing out that your opinions seem to be a waste of time in general, and you have contributed very little to the boards. But, hell that isn't really my call to make.

I do however appreciate you quoting the forum rules for me in the PM. That was priceless and I have seen the error of my ways now. You are of course completely innocent of any conflicts caused. Don't think I need to name names. Let the games continue.



HUH??
WWJD
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby EJSG19 on Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:56 am

WWJD wrote:
EJSG19 wrote:Nah don't ban somebody just because he's been banned from every other forum site I can find. Its only a matter of time and things will work themselves out. The endless chain of PM's which are nothing but nonsense and circular arguments avoiding the fact that somebody has too much time on their hands and acts like the world is against them when they are really the only thing wrong with the situation...

Oh, and yes I do drop trow to the ankles and stand proudly while I pee. That way I don't get any wee-wee on the trousers, and the significant other stays happy while doing the laundry. If you don't like that, well tough. Having cleared the air on that one, I'm still not sure how that is relevant to my pointing out that your opinions seem to be a waste of time in general, and you have contributed very little to the boards. But, hell that isn't really my call to make.

I do however appreciate you quoting the forum rules for me in the PM. That was priceless and I have seen the error of my ways now. You are of course completely innocent of any conflicts caused. Don't think I need to name names. Let the games continue.



HUH??


Wasn't referencing your post nearly as much as the Fud's.

Sorry for confusion.
EJSG19


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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby WWJD on Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:22 pm

Fuddin Elmer!! : :roll:



:twisted: roll:
WWJD
Stomp on your goolies, abuse Justabullet catcher, make you give up the info right there and then and then save the world.
IF LIFE WAS ONLY THAT EASY, AND JUSTA WASN'T A PLONKER...BLISS!





FU.. Pei Ying Brit...can I pee on your sofa?!!!
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Re: Cuffed and Caged for Open Carry

Postby elmerfuddem on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:29 pm

WWJD wrote:Fuddin Elmer!! : :roll:



:twisted: roll:


what?
"Hurrah, boys, we've got them! We'll finish them up and then go home to our station." Lt. Col G.A. Custer June 25, 1876.
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