Anybody going to the gun show this weekend?

[onebohemian]

I frankly find the behavior disturbing of those who have stated that they indeed carried when it clearly was posted. What message are you sending to those who would take our rights away? If you do not like the terms, then do not participate. I can and do support an ethos of not supporting business that post, that is how you make your statement.

When this topic came up last time--when a cop working the event negligently fired a round into the cement and then blamed (successfully) the conspiring chair and holster that were really at fault--someone suggested that the MWCA's insurance carrier may require that it ban all loaded guns. I'm not sure whether we ever got confirmation that this is truly the reason behind the ban. One would think that if it was the insurance company causing the ban, MWCA would make that clearly known so that we all wouldn't continue to think it was MWCA leadership that's responsible.

Nonetheless, there's a lot of messages being sent, but the ones that really matter to our rights are not being sent by the handful of folks who post in gun forums that they conceal carried into a gun show. Instead, the messages that will hurt us most are those being sent by MWCA. What messages do the self-proclaimed oldest (largest?) gun collectors association in Minnesota send when it bans carry at gun shows by permit holders? How about:

1.) Certain gun owners (who vehemently hold themselves out as being supporters of the 2nd amendment) don't trust other gun owners to be safe with their carry guns when people congregate in large groups in public places.

2.) Permit holders are not responsible enough to carry at events where non-permit holders are present.

3.) Collectors know better than permit holders.

4.) Etc.

P.S.: Oh, and Plblark, stop being rude.

[Dick Unger]

It was clearly posted? Really?You;d think we had a law which clearly specified the exact verbage and placement / font / etc ... None of those signs around. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

I did not go to the one at the state fair grounds but I did attend the last one at the convention center and it was quite clear and up front. Furthermore while I will not debate you one the "law" I find your attitude rude and insulting. Clearly the members who posted above knew they were doing so against the wishes of the organizers of the event. That is just wrong and send the wrong message. It states that we who carry concealed will not respect your wishes and will use every loophole we know to circumnavigate them. No wonder there is a strong contingent who wants to take them away from us. I am a gun guy who loves his right to bear arms, but I also realize that every action I take within that right may be scrutinized and judged by others some of whom might not want me to continue to enjoy that right. It is our actions that in the end dictate our fate.

The signs did not comply with the MPPA, as signs which affected licensed carriers. I read the signs as not pertaining to licensed carriers, such as police or people with carry permits, because that interpretation is, in fact, the law.

If owners or tenants wish to exclude people with carry permits, they can easily post the necessary signs, and personally notify people of their wishes, according to the law designed just for that purpose.

The law fairly assumes that exclusion of licensed carriers will be an unusual request, by an owner or tenant excercising a bias, but does give such an owner or tenant a perfect procedure for doing that. When this procedure is not followed it's fair to assume the signs do not pertain to a licensed carrier. I would not presume to guess at the reason for posting signs not described by the MPPA, and thus directed at me, or presume that an owner or tenant is biased and also uniformed as to the law.

It is NOT clear to me that they don't want me to carry. Maybe it's someone's idea of a safety reminder.

[Holland&Holland]

Look I am not arguing that the message bieng send by the MWCA is wrong and one I do not agree with and I am not saying that they in fact posted correctly according to the law. What I am saying is simple, it is about intent. You clearly know that by carrying you are not following the terms of the event. If you think otherwise then prove me wrong why don't you open carry right past that police officer at the door? Come on gentlemen, our actions are a reflection of who we are. Shame on you.

Where are the MN carry class instructors in this string? This is not the behaviour I was told to follow in my class. It was clear instruction on this point, if it is posted, lock it in your car. Same goes for a school. Just do not do it. Lock it in your car. I know some of you guys have been able to carry for many years, but I am one of those standard citizens who did not see an avenue allowing me to carry until the Minnesota Carry law was passed. It is a right that I enjoy and do not want to see it revoked. If that means I need to be extra coutious in order for those who do not want me to have that right to see that I am not some crazy with a gun, then that is what I will do.

[jac714]

Look I am not arguing that the message bieng send by the MWCA is wrong and one I do not agree with and I am not saying that they in fact posted correctly according to the law. What I am saying is simple, it is about intent. You clearly know that by carrying you are not following the terms of the event. If you think otherwise then prove me wrong why don't you open carry right past that police officer at the door? Come on gentlemen, our actions are a reflection of who we are. Shame on you.

Where are the MN carry class instructors in this string? This is not the behaviour I was told to follow in my class. It was clear instruction on this point, if it is posted, lock it in your car. Same goes for a school. Just do not do it. Lock it in your car. I know some of you guys have been able to carry for many years, but I am one of those standard citizens who did not see an avenue allowing me to carry until the Minnesota Carry law was passed. It is a right that I enjoy and do not want to see it revoked. If that means I need to be extra coutious in order for those who do not want me to have that right to see that I am not some crazy with a gun, then that is what I will do.

That is YOUR choice.

Let em ask you this, if I were to put a sign out in front of my house that said that the speed zone was 15 mph would you follow that sign? It is clear that i don't want you going fast in my neighborhood, but the sign has no force of law to back it up. Neither do the signs at the MWCA shows. Because of these signs I no longer go to their shows.

Their desire to have no loaded guns is one of safety hoping to prevent what happened at the Convention Center show, I can understand that desire and endorse it but think there are better ways to deal with it.

I think my objection here is the projection of your morals and ideals as correct, they may be correct for you but for many others they are dead wrong.

I am not willing to go somewhere where there is a large number of people I do not know with access to guns and ammonution with out carrying, period, end of discussion on that issue. You may have a different point of view, that is your right. You, however, do not have th right to chastize others for a different decision.

[mnmike59]

I seriously thought the "NO LOADED GUNS" sign was directed at the general public walking in with guns for sale. I never saw any sign that directly affected Permit holders. Until I see the "Legal" signs or am asked to leave. I will wear my sidearm just as I buckle up when I get in my vehicle. It's there for my safety.

jac714 Quote-- "I am not willing to go somewhere where there is a large number of people I do not know with access to guns and ammonution with out carrying, period"

+1

[Holland&Holland]

So let me get this straight... You have the right to chastize me for chastizing you for not having the right to chastize? Come on grow up. Of course I have the same right as you to state my opinion and frankly I find anyone who would ignore a posting such as at this weekends event to be in the wrong. So MY morals are being Pushed on you how? It is simple decency and common sense that I am talking about and I thought that was something we all perscribed to, if not then then this is a sad world we live in.

If I did have a sign posted outside of my house for 15 MPH maybe you should think about why that might be. Maybe that person has a child with a disability that may not realize that cars can kill you. Maybe the right thing to do is to slow down and actually follow their request. Maybe this world would be a better place if we actually had an ethos where we tried to think about others and their needs rather than just our own.

You are right I stand corrected, I guess I just have a moral code based on doing the right thing even if it means at a risk to myself. It is just sad that you do not feel the same. Good luck in life with that ethos, I hope it all works out for you.

[Holland&Holland]

Once again, if you really think it does not apply to permit holders then why not open carry past the gaurd and just show him your permit?

Come on we all know it applies to concealed carry as well and it even was stated as such at the convention center one. Ok, if you want to get childish and petty just start in with the minutia about font, size, wording, etc... But please do not insult my intelegence by telling me this. And lets not go into the "you can not tell me what I know" argument of course I do not "know" what you know or do not know but please...

[mnmike59]

Once again, if you really think it does not apply to permit holders then why not open carry past the gaurd and just show him your permit?

I understand you statements and I do agree with you to a point. I really did not think it applied to permit holders. Why wouldnt they ad "this applies to permit holders" BPR has a sign directed towards permit holders. This way there is no doubt what it means.
As to your question. I don't EVER open carry. MY permit instructor strongly urged this, and I must agree.

Lets put this thread behind us! You have always been a good contributor to the threads. I would hate to see this get out of hand.

[chunkstyle]

P.S.: Oh, and Plblark, stop being rude.

Almost lost my milk on that one...

[jac714]

So let me get this straight... You have the right to chastize me for chastizing you for not having the right to chastize? Come on grow up. Of course I have the same right as you to state my opinion and frankly I find anyone who would ignore a posting such as at this weekends event to be in the wrong. So MY morals are being Pushed on you how? It is simple decency and common sense that I am talking about and I thought that was something we all perscribed to, if not then then this is a sad world we live in.

If I did have a sign posted outside of my house for 15 MPH maybe you should think about why that might be. Maybe that person has a child with a disability that may not realize that cars can kill you. Maybe the right thing to do is to slow down and actually follow their request. Maybe this world would be a better place if we actually had an ethos where we tried to think about others and their needs rather than just our own.

You are right I stand corrected, I guess I just have a moral code based on doing the right thing even if it means at a risk to myself. It is just sad that you do not feel the same. Good luck in life with that ethos, I hope it all works out for you.

You know nothing about me or how I deal with a situation.

To have the absolute arrogance to decide the basis of my "moral code" is somehow inferior to yours is ******** and offensive. To do so on the basis of one quote that only offers the opinion that you should not be so fast to chastize others is downright childish, I expect better of the 6th grader I teach. If you go back and look at my post you will find that that is the only value judgement. The rest of your conclusions about me are so far off the truth that they are laughable. I cannot recall anytime I have carried past any posting that asks me not to spend my money in that loxation.

Let me ask you a few questions about your willingness to "... tied to think about others..." Ever spent any time serving others, ie military, working with inner city kids, mentoring kids (other than your own), taught a DNR hunter safety class, or anything not directly related to you or your family? If the answer to that question is not an emphatic yes, then I have no respect for or interest in your opinion regarding thinking about others.

You tell me to grow up, give it a try yourself. You might try by starting to judge others less until you know what the hell you are talking about.

[jac714]

Once again, if you really think it does not apply to permit holders then why not open carry past the gaurd and just show him your permit?

I generally only open carry in the field, whether I have a gun or not is really no one elses business (except a police officer if he specifically asks about it) except mine.

I am curious, do you make it a habit to open carry? If not why do you advocate it for others?

[Holland&Holland]

Once again, if you really think it does not apply to permit holders then why not open carry past the gaurd and just show him your permit?

I understand you statements and I do agree with you to a point. I really did not think it applied to permit holders. Why wouldnt they ad "this applies to permit holders" BPR has a sign directed towards permit holders. This way there is no doubt what it means.
As to your question. I don't EVER open carry. MY permit instructor strongly urged this, and I must agree.

Lets put this thread behind us! You have always been a good contributor to the threads. I would hate to see this get out of hand.

Agreed.

And to jac714 my answer is a YES I have to your first set of questions.

[Magnum Mikie]

Hey guys, let's all step back and take a deep breath............as the OP of this thread, my intention wasn't to start a food fight. I was just curious if MWCA actually didn't allow loaded firearms in their place of business.

I guess it comes down to each individual's decision of whether they carry or not while attending the gun shows sponsored by MWCA. My choice is not to attend. YMMV

[jac714]

Hey guys, let's all step back and take a deep breath............as the OP of this thread, my intention wasn't to start a food fight. I was just curious if MWCA actually didn't allow loaded firearms in their place of business.

I guess it comes down to each individual's decision of whether they carry or not while attending the gun shows sponsored by MWCA. My choice is not to attend. YMMV

I am with you on that. It is their choice to make the rules they want and it is our choice to subject ourselves to those rules.

I use the signs to help me decide where to spend my money. Anywhere that is posted I try to find an alternate source of supply, if there is nothing available I will disarm to enter their facility adn rearm as soon as I leave. If there is an alternate source I do not patronize the posted business.

[elmerfuddem]

A POSITIVE IMAGE IS ALWAYS BETTER THEN A NEGATIVE ONE.