Limit on purchasing hand guns?

[onebohemian]

. . . Their prices are a little high, even when compared to . . . Sportsman's Warehouse.

I don't understand this statement. I've come to know Sportsman's Warehouse as having the best handgun prices in town. I usually find their handgun accessories equally or better priced than anywhere else locally as well.

[Thor]

I compare prices all over, including the internet. I've gotten really good deals from Gander & Sportsman's, but some of their stuff is priced a little high, IMO. (They're brick and mortar stores, so I take that into account. Both can have fair prices on stuff, too). I add in state sales tax for the local stores and from the net, I add in the shipping and transfer fees just to be fair. I got severely taken advantage of from a gun shop in Monticello, so NOW, before I buy anything, I usually investigate prices unless I know for sure it's a good price.

[brauchma]

Must have been Mel's. I drive by there and usually stop in on my way to and from hunting. I'm wondering if it's just their store policy or if someone wasn't just making up their own rules. Their prices are a little high, even when compared to Gander or Sportsman's Warehouse. Their handgun selection kind of sucks, from what I've seen.

It was the owner himself... I have heard this about him before. His prices are higher and his selection is poor at times. The store looks good on the outside and it has turned into a pit on the inside.

Anyways... back on topic...

How does one educate these types? Can he do this?... He is the owner after all...

[farmerj]

I veiw it as store policy.

I can take it or leave it.

After a discussion like that, I will leave it.

[Thor]

Must have been Mel's. I drive by there and usually stop in on my way to and from hunting. I'm wondering if it's just their store policy or if someone wasn't just making up their own rules. Their prices are a little high, even when compared to Gander or Sportsman's Warehouse. Their handgun selection kind of sucks, from what I've seen.

It was the owner himself... I have heard this about him before. His prices are higher and his selection is poor at times. The store looks good on the outside and it has turned into a pit on the inside.

Anyways... back on topic...

How does one educate these types? Can he do this?... He is the owner after all...

A store still has the right to establish their own policies. The only thing he's doing is possibly losing business. St. Cloud isn't THAT far away and then there's Willmar. I haven't ever explored the gun shops in Willmar, so I can't say how they are. Pat Labe is just right up the road from Mel's, but his selection is pretty slim. Mel's is a good place to get out, take a break and stretch my legs, but I have stopped at Labe's Gun Repair, too.

[JFettig]

Yeah.. the guy at Mels is less than fun to deal with..... I bought a couple of sks's from him for $100 each, I bought the second one a day after the first one and said I should have just bought both the day before to put them on the same form.


Theres a gun shop in Willmar called Zero Tolerance, has a decent amount of stuff, no deals. Some of the things are priced well others are high. Kyle is quite full of bs too. Zero Tolerance is about all you got in Willmar.

Jon

[farmerj]

Yeah.. the guy at Mels is less than fun to deal with..... I bought a couple of sks's from him for $100 each, I bought the second one a day after the first one and said I should have just bought both the day before to put them on the same form.


Theres a gun shop in Willmar called Zero Tolerance, has a decent amount of stuff, no deals. Some of the things are priced well others are high. Kyle is quite full of bs too. Zero Tolerance is about all you got in Willmar.

Jon

Went there last April to check them out in Willmar.

Like I said, I checked them out. Wasn't impressed with selection or prices.

[cobb]

Does ANYONE, read your Form 4473 when you fill it out?

It simply says that you need to report additional handguns in a 3 day period on a second form. No restrictions or anything else.

The additional form only applies to hand guns, not assault rifles.

Yep, like I said, no problem.

[Tabsr]

The report is probably sent to the ATF and state on multiple purchase. When the dealer closes, required to send all purchas records to the ATF, Now have you on record.

[farmerj]

The report is probably sent to the ATF and state on multiple purchase. When the dealer closes, required to send all purchas records to the ATF, Now have you on record.

Do you know this for a fact or what?


Get your stories straight please before you put your conjecture out as fact.

Not one 4473 was transferred to the BATFE when I worked for Sportsman's Warehouse. None of the supplementary forms were either.

On top of all that, at no time were they informed of WHAT you were purchasing other than, longgun or handgun.

There wasn't even a space for assault weapon.

[selurcspi]

When a business closes all of the 4473s 20 years and younger have to go to the ATF.

[phorvick]

Re multiple purchases.

The rule only applies to (a) handguns and (b) if you purchase 2 or more from the same dealer in a 5 day period.

If you do, the dealer is required to notify the BATFE (usually by FAX) and also to notify the chief law enforcement agency in the community the purchaser resides. (Typically police chief or Sheriff).

This means that IF you do a true multiple purchase, law enforcement is aware.

Of course, nothing would prohibit you from buying 1 each at Scheels. Gander, Cabelas all on the same day as it is from different dealers.

And, as I understand it, the purchase takes effect the day you take delivery. So, feel free to order 2 guns from Gander, but take delivery outside the 5 day window.

If you are not paranoid, no big deal. If you are paranoid about "them" knowing you have purchased multiple guns, well...that is different. It is not unheard of for the BATFE to make inquiry as to "why" you bought 10 Hi Points on Tuesday. Inquiry might be by telephone, or by knock on your door.

I have made only a handful of multiple purchases....never had a "visit" from the Feds. Yet.

[hammAR]

When a business closes all of the 4473s 20 years and younger have to go to the ATF.

(C7) What records am I required to forward to ATF upon discontinuance of my business?

The records consist of the licensee's bound acquisition/disposition (A/D) records, ATF Forms 4473, ATF Forms 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers), ATF Forms 3310.11 (Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss Report), records of transactions in semiautomatic assault weapons, records of importation (ATF Forms 6 and 6A), and law enforcement certification letters. If the licensee was granted a variance to use a computerized record-keeping system, the licensee is required to provide a complete printout of the entire A/D records.

[27 CFR 478.127]

(F5) As a licensed dealer, must I advise ATF if I sell more than one handgun to an individual?

If you sell or dispose of more than one handgun to any non-licensee during a period of 5 consecutive business days, the sale must be reported on ATF Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, not later than the close of the business day on which you sold or disposed of the second handgun. The licensee must forward a copy of the Form 3310.4 to the ATF office specified thereon, and another copy must be forwarded to the State police or local law enforcement agency where the sale occurred. A copy of the Form 3310.4 also must be attached to the firearms transaction record, ATF Form 4473, documenting the sale or disposition of the second handgun.

A business day for purposes of reporting multiple sales of pistols or revolvers is a day that a licensee conducts business pursuant to the license, regardless of whether State offices are open. The application of the term “business day” is, therefore, distinguishable from the term “business day” as used in the NICS context. Example: A licensee conducts business only on Saturdays and Sundays, days on which State offices are not open. The licensee sells a pistol to an unlicensed person on a Saturday. If that same unlicensed person acquires another handgun the next day (Sunday), the following Saturday or Sunday, or the Saturday after the reporting requirement would be triggered, the subsequent acquisition of a handgun would have to be reported on a Form 3310.4 by the close of the day upon which the second or subsequent handgun was sold.

[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(3), 27 CFR 478.126a]

[plblark]

I had read ( I believe it was from View From The Porch Blogger Tamara) that there was a limit to how long the business had to retain the records books. I thought it was 20 or 21 years. putting those two together, would leave me assuming they have to turn over their records, but only the records they are required to keep so those older than 20 years COULD be disposed of before the books were turned in.

[hammAR]

It reads that forms must be maintained for at least 20 years.........................

E1) What is a "bound book?"

A "bound book" is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages which must be maintained on the business premises. The format must follow that prescribed in the regulations, and the pages must be numbered consecutively.

[27 CFR 478.121 and 478.125]
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HOWEVER, I strongly suggest that if it is entered into the "bound book" that you keep copies forever, or until the business closes and you send all pertinent information and forms to the ATF.....................
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