Another child lost

[Srigs]

That is a sad day for the family and one that could have been avoided.

[justaguy]

If the kid fell on steak knife, would we charge the parents?

Maybe, maybe not, but steak knives are intended for cutting meat, not shooting people. Even so, they are dangerous, and good parents keep these things out of the hands of 5 year olds.

If the kid was taking a bath and dropped the hair dryer in the tub, would we charge the parents?

Maybe, maybe not, but dryers are intended to dry hair, not shoot people. Even so they are dangerous, and good parents would not keep a dryer within reach or accessible to a five year old when he is taking a bath, if they let the child bathe unattended at all.

If the kid pulled down the 52" plasma off the wall and got squished would we charge the parents?

Maybe, maybe not, but Televisions are designed for entertainment, not for shooting people. Even so, they are dangerous, and good parents would have it securely fastened to a stud in the wall with the enclosed bracket specifically designed for the purpose, so it doesn't kill their 5 year old

Bummer for the whole family,

Whole heartedly agree... but the firearm should have been inaccessible to the child. Period. Make no mistake, I feel terrible for the parents, I can't imagine what they are putting themselves through.

They should face criminal charges. This could have very easily been avoided.

Stard you have said a lot of dumb **** before, but this takes the cake. "Not shooting people"? Are you **** kidding? I guess all my guns are junk, because they have never shot anyone. So guns are designed for "shooting people"?

The fact you want them brought up on charges is fine. But, your argument that guns are made to "shoot" people is stupid. I have more scars from steak knives than I do guns.

Stard in your "charge them" theory who should get charged? The mom or the dad? Both? How far do you want to take charging parents for negligence? Technically every car accident could be avoided with proper awareness and avoidance. So if a kid dies in a car accident should we charge the "bad parents"?

[Stradawhovious]

Justa. Thanks so much for your blatent personal attack. It is unwarranted, and uncalled for.

Are handguns designed to shoot people? Yes they are. If you havent used yours for their designed purpose, well, youre lucky, and I hope, for your sake you never do. If I'm wrong, please inform me of the intent behind the original and progressive design of the handgun. I am curious... What was the intended use for your glock? A paperweight?

As far as the charges for a car accident, well. that simply isn't the same thing now is it. Should the parents be brought on charges for a car accident? i don't know. Was the driver drunk? High? going 100 milkes an hour in a school zone? I lost a very young member of my family to a car accident due to a patch of black ice. This was due to no fault of the driver. My family was completely devastated for a long time, and is still suffering from this years later. Do I blame the driver? No. but then again this wasn't caused by a handgun, left out in the open, for the child to find.

[Paul]

There is a big difference if it is blatantly negligent.

IMHO

[justaguy]

Justa. Thanks so much for you blatent personal attack. It is unwarranted, and uncalled for.

You're welcome. You spelled "blatant" wrong. I know you have never said anything that could be considered a personal attack, but that is ok because it was directed at someone else.

Are handguns designed to shoot people? Yes they are. If you havent used yours for their designed purpose, well, youre lucky, and I hope, for your sake you never do. If I'm wrong, please inform me of the intent behind the original and progressive design of the handgun. I am curious... What was the intended use for your glock? A paperweight?

I know of handguns that have taken game. Deer, hog, and the like. I know of even more that shoot paper. Handguns are made to shoot. The shooter decides what it shoots. What is the purpose of a "black rifle"? Do people that buy those guns use them for killing? The intended purpose of my beloved Glock is to shoot. If I have to use it to save my life I will. I will also use a baseball bat, my car, a wrench, a towel rack, a bottle, knife, rock, my belt, chair, picture, pan remote, tv/monitor, table, or anything else I can get my hands on that can stop someone from killing me. Maybe we should outlaw black rifles and handguns, because they are only for killing.

You are never supposed to drive a car faster than conditions allow for you to safely operate and control the vehicle. If that is 2 mph then that is what you drive, or maybe you don't drive at all. Anything faster and you are putting peoples lives in danger and are there for negligent.

[Stradawhovious]

You are never supposed to drive a car faster than conditions allow for you to safely operate and control the vehicle. If that is 2 mph then that is what you drive, or maybe you dont drive at all. Anything fast and you are putting peoples lives in danger and are there for negligent.

We will have to agree to disagree on the other points, but this last one....

Are you hinting that my sister negligently killed her child? In the same fashion as someone who leaves a handgun out in the open for a child to find?

[diamondsj]

I agree to a certain extent with Strad on this -- I agree that the parents are 100% to blame on this. Sam is right also -- the parents are putting themselves through a kind of punishment I hope none of us here will NEVER know...prison isn't going to be the answer for these parents -- by the grace of God is the only way they will get through this with their sanity. Their is no legal punishment that can match how they are punishing themselves.

Prison and criminal charges for these parents isn't going to serve it's intended purpose for the parents...it will only serve to heighten awareness for parents who are not as diligent and purposeful in their handling and storage of firearms as everyone should be when children are present. If it's not on your hip, it better be safely stored if young children are around...common sense in my book. With that said, criminal charges should be pursued -- just let them bury their child first, let the legal consequences come after, pray for them during all of this....

These are two young parents -- 31 yrs old. Age doesn't matter, just saying they've got a long time on this earth to punish themselves daily about this...prison wouldn't begin to compare to what their own minds, hearts, and souls are doing to them right now. Puzzling part of all of this to me is that I know the father pretty well and he is very conscientous about guns and safety with them...why the gun was where it was when he was home at the time with his son is beyond me... complacency...a simple word, but one too often practiced in many different aspects of our lives.

Pray for these parents -- if they make it through all of this without ending their own pain, I hope they will stand for promoting greater awareness, education, and safety issues surrounding children and guns. Pray for them, for none of us would EVER want to be where they are right now -- having to plan their child's funeral because of some act they could have prevented quite easily.

[justaguy]

There is a big difference if it is blatantly negligent.

IMHO

Define "blatantly negligent".

Is that what you want judges and law makers doing? How about some "common sense gun laws"?

[Vlad]

I agree with Dimondsj on this. As someone that lost my wife to a disease that neither she or I had any contol over, I still have a hard time moving on with life and daily search for things that I could have, should have done differently even thought it has been almost 4 years. With this situation, I cannot imagine the whirlwind of emotional pain they are going through, they are living a personal hell and I will keep them in my thoughts and prayers. Tom

[Holland&Holland]

Justa. Thanks so much for you blatent personal attack. It is unwarranted, and uncalled for.

Your welcome. You spelled "blatant" wrong. I know you have never said anything that could be considered a personal attack, but that is ok because it was directed at someone else.

Are handguns designed to shoot people? Yes they are. If you havent used yours for their designed purpose, well, youre lucky, and I hope, for your sake you never do. If I'm wrong, please inform me of the intent behind the original and progressive design of the handgun. I am curious... What was the intended use for your glock? A paperweight?

I know of handguns that have taken game. Deer, hog, and the like. I know of even more that shoot paper. Handguns are made to shoot. The shooter decides what it shoots. What is the purpose of a "black rifle"? Do people that buy those guns use them for killing? The intended purpose of my beloved Glock is to shoot. If I have to use it to save my life I will. I will also use a baseball bat, my car, a wrench, a towel rack, a bottle, knife, rock, my belt, chair, picture, pan remote, tv/monitor, table, or anything else I can get my hands on that can stop someone from killing me.

You are never supposed to drive a car faster than conditions allow for you to safely operate and control the vehicle. If that is 2 mph then that is what you drive, or maybe you dont drive at all. Anything fast and you are putting peoples lives in danger and are there for negligent.

I understand your sensitivity to the labeling of guns. But I disagree with you and agree to some extent with Strad. Guns are tools. Nothing more, nothing less. Some tools are more adapted to certain tasks than others. I have in my tool room a standard 16 oz claw hammer, a 22 oz framing hammer, a rubber mallet, and a 2 lb sledge each are more suited for specific tasks than the other. Also if my wife is doing the same task that might change which tool is used and while not done as efficiently it is what would work best for her. Handguns are the same. I have shot a deer with my .357 6" revolver. If I was going handgun hunting however there is another "tool" I would select from my gun case that is going to work better. I also have a couple of glocks. They also are tools suited for specific tasks and that task is stopping a threat to myself or my family. That means I want them to specificly send a bullet down range. penetrate the vitals of an assailant, and expand approriately to cause them to not get back up. I would sincerly hope that they would survive the ordeal to face charges for their crime, but this is what I have this tool for. Yes they punch paper, but that is to be prepared in case the situation eve arose where they were needed to be used.

Now for this situation at hand. I very sorry for the child and the family. This is a real tragedy. I would have to know more details before I would render any judgement on whether I thought a member of the family should face charges, however, if a child of this age managed to get their hands on a loaded weapon then I find it very hard to believe that there was not someone neglegent in their storage of a firearm and if that is the case then through the book at them Dano!

I have 2 young, courious, offspring in my home for whom I go though hoops to try to keep them alive until they turn 18 (and at that time I do not really see myself stopping my efforts). When it comes to my firearms, I use a combination of physical security devices, access control, and education to prevent any issues that said no system is fool proof...

[justaguy]

Are you hinting that my sister negligently killed her child? In the same fashion as someone who leaves a handgun out in the open for a child to find?

I don't "hint" nor do I know anything about your family. I wouldn't try to make a casual conversation personal. The outcome will upset you more than it will me. If you really care PM me and we can have this discussion.

[diskdoctr]

This is a sad situation, without a doubt... Why it is even being discussed, I don't know. We cannot begin to put ourselves in the situation and make any kind of judgements as to whether or not due care was taken to secure the firearm. Obviously, something happened, and the weapon discharged. All we can say from the outside is, "We are sorry for your loss, and we will pray for you and your family". Nobody has the right, or the duty to judge this situation until such time there is a trial, if there is one... With that said, "I am sorry for your loss, and my family will keep you in our prayers".

[Seismic Sam]

And as long as we're indulging in personal attacks - Strad - your mother dresses you REALLY weird...

[Stradawhovious]

And as long as we're indulging in personal attacks - Strad - your mother dresses you REALLY weird...

Thanks Lefty.

[EJSG19]

If we want to talk stupid accidents, this is a stupid accident:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=7986040&page=1

Chilling audio tapes of a frantic 911 call placed by a Florida man after his python fatally attacked his girlfriend's 2-year old-daughter Wednesday have been released.

Continued...