Utah slams door on foreign permit applicants

[phorvick]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_7001458
Utah gun permits now for U.S. only
Concealed-weapon licenses, good in 30 U.S. states, are no longer easy to acquire abroad
By Glen Warchol
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 09/26/2007 02:11:47 AM MDT

Though Utah's concealed-gun permit has won the hearts of self-defense advocates nationwide - about half the permits are issued to residents of other states - an emergency change in rules will keep it from becoming equally popular around the globe.

A legislative committee learned Tuesday that about 1,000 citizens of foreign countries have earned Utah's wallet identification card signifying they can pack a gun out of sight in Utah and any of 30 U.S. states that have a reciprocity agreement with Utah.

The foreign Utah permit carriers came from countries including Japan, Colombia, Mongolia, Switzerland, Mexico, and Germany. More than 400 of Utah's permits are carried by Canadians.
"Utah had become the state of choice for people who did not live in the United States but wanted to carry a gun in the country," said Richard Wyss, legal counsel for the Bureau of Criminal Investigation. "The Department [of Public Safety] became alarmed."
Wyss said most U.S. states simply deny nonresident foreigners concealed weapon permits. "Utah is one of three states that allows it."

Several months ago, BCI officials noticed increasing applications from nonresident foreigners. The issue came to a head when a firearms instructor told the BCI he was planning to teach Utah's required concealed-carry classes in Israel, said BCI manager Lt. Doug Anderson.

Worse, because of a loophole in the concealed carry permit rules, the background check on foreign nationals is superficial at best - far less stringent than what a U.S. citizens faces. Utah residents' backgrounds, for instance, are scrutinized through the Utah and national crime information centers, driver license files, juvenile justice databases and even expunged records.

"Non-U.S. residents - based on interpretation of the statute - were undergoing much less onerous background checks than even Utah residents to obtain these permits," Wyss said.
The reason? Utah is denied access to the criminal record databases of foreign nations. Consequently, the checks came back, "No record found."

In August, BCI responded, implementing an emergency rule change that halted permits to nonresident foreigners. (A documented resident foreigner still can qualify for a permit after 90 days.)

Tuesday, the Administrative Rules Review Committee agreed with denying permits to nonresident foreign nationals whose countries did not allow BCI access to crime information. In effect, the rule will block all foreign applications because no nation allows adequate access.
Even Canadian crime records available are incomplete for background checks, said Anderson. "I am not confident that I can do a background check on anyone outside the U.S."
At least three committee members admitted they were confused about the concealed weapon law. Rep. Merlynn Newbold, R-South Jordan, suggested the committee look into recommending an overhaul of the statute during the next session.

Wyss agreed. "I don't think the statute is clear," he said, referring to several ambiguities. "The department is trying to figure out what the Legislature meant."
Applicants for a concealed weapon permit must have good character - no felonies or crimes involving moral turpitude, drugs or domestic violence.

But before the change, foreign nationals only needed to buy a hunting license to apply for a concealed weapon permit. When BCI ran a background check on the applicant, it could find no criminal records simply because the person did not live in the United States.

If the foreign citizen met the other requirements of a safety class and provided a photo and fingerprints, the permit would be issued.

"We were not able to do a background check and yet they were still able to obtain permits," Wyss explained.

But Clark Aposhian, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association and Chairman of the Utah Self-Defense Instructors' Network, says the rule change may be unfair to Canada, which has a reciprocal agreement with the United States on checking most crime records.

''It would cut out those Canadians who visit Utah quite frequently,'' Aposhian said. ''They would be denied the opportunity of lawful self defense.''

The 1,000 nonresident foreigners with Utah concealed gun permits will be allowed to retain them until their 5-year renewal period comes up. Then they will have to meet the new requirement for background checks and most likely be denied renewal.

Last year, Utah issued 60 percent of its concealed gun permits to out-of-state residents, who are not required to set foot in Utah to qualify. Nor does Utah's law require that an applicant pass a shooting proficiency test or even fire a gun to get a permit.

Out-of-state applicants want to carry a gun in the more than 30 states that recognize Utah's permit. Gun rights activists call Utah's "the most valuable permit in the nation" because of its acceptance in other states, five-year duration, low fee, ease of renewal and modest training requirement.

Since 1995, Utah has issued 92,000 permits - 29,000 to non-Utah residents.

Foreign issue

Utah has been a boon to citizens of foreign countries who want to carry concealed guns in the United States. With minimal background checks, about 1,000 permits have been issued to residents of 11 foreign countries:
* Anguilla
* Aruba
* Colombia
* Canada
* Germany
* Guyana
* Niue
* Japan
* Mongolia
* Democratic Republic of the Congo
* Switzerland

[cobb]

But I thought that all foreigners had constitutional rights.

[hammAR]

But I thought that all foreigners had constitutional rights.

Only if they are illegal aliens or insurgents................................

.

[cobb]

But I thought that all foreigners had constitutional rights.

Only if they are illegal aliens or insurgents................................

.

Oh ya, that's right...............

[Andrew Rothman]

But I thought that all foreigners had constitutional rights.

Actually, yes, they do. Do you think that "all men created equal" and "inalienable rights" which are "endowed by [our] creator" apply only to citizens? Nonsense.

If a Minnesotan has a right to protect his life with effective tools, doesn't a Manitoban?

[DeanC]

Do you think that "all men created equal" and "inalienable rights" which are "endowed by [our] creator" apply only to citizens? Nonsense.

I thought that was the Declaration of Independence and not the Constitution?

[Andrew Rothman]

I thought that was the Declaration of Independence and not the Constitution?

It is. Do you think the one doesn't provide context as to the intent of the other?

Also, note that the Bill of Rights repeatedly refers to "the people" and "person"s, not "the citizenry" or "citizen"s.

Should cops simply shoot tourists for speeding, or beat confessions out of them, or are they entitled to due process?

[DeanC]

It is. Do you think the one doesn't provide context as to the intent of the other?

Many would argue they do not.

Slavery persisted for a long time despite the "unalienable right to liberty" and was not rectified without a Constitutional amendment in 186?.

[nyffman]

Back on topic, why do they have to shut down foreign applications? Doesn't it make sense, that the background check being part of the process, if it can't be accomplished, the permit is denied on that basis?

[DeanC]

Back on topic, why do they have to shut down foreign applications? Doesn't it make sense, that the background check being part of the process, if it can't be accomplished, the permit is denied on that basis?

You would think, eh?

But of what value is a background check from Colombia? They can't even get the facts right on Wikipedia because of edit wars.

[selurcspi]

It is. Do you think the one doesn't provide context as to the intent of the other?

Many would argue they do not.

Slavery persisted for a long time despite the "unalienable right to liberty" and was not rectified without a Constitutional amendment in 186?.

DeanC,

The word you're looking for is Persists!
It is mostly ended in this country, but there are many other countries in the world where it is still in force.

[nyffman]

But of what value is a background check from Colombia? They can't even get the facts right on Wikipedia because of edit wars.

Another good point(Columbia itself, not Wikidpedia). Shouldn't it be the responsibility of the BCI to be confident in the person's country of origin background check information before issueing the permit? No confidence = no permit. No new law or ruling required.