Speaking of gun safes...

[FJ540]

What would be the ideal construction?

The ones with the wheel and several bars seem to suffer from being "one lock to crack" IMO, so wouldn't it make more sense to have multiple locks to engage various latches?

Say you had a dead bolt lock that operated a lever to engage a pair of pins in one part of the door, then another to do the same in yet another part of the door. Configured such that the lock wasn't exposed to external threats - Wouldn't that slow them down to a crawl?

I'm just thinking: I have a welder, I have machinery, and I have access to any steel I want (I have to pay for it) - wouldn't it make sense to build a safe that defeated the two man teams rather than drop mucho cash on one of the higher end ones that may or may not be any better?

After all, the only difficult section of the entire design is the door.

So other than a good thick skin and heavy frame - what all would you want inside the walls? Gypsum for heat, but what else?

[Norsesmithy]

The old Chubb safes, famous for being uncrackable (before the invention of cutting torches and dynamite) used two or three locks to secure a central hub that controlled 2 to 4 bolts per edge (including the hinge edge), depending on the size of the safe.

That, I think, would be the ideal solution, more than one lock and the largest, most robust bolts/motion you can fit in the door.

Another feature some high end safes have is a glass plate that, if broken, will cause the bolts to disengage from the motion, so if someone tries to drill the safe to get at the locks or motion, the safe becomes broken shut, requiring the destruction of the door to open it. I guess I always thought that a feature like that made sense if your contents had a value sufficiently greater than the cost of having a professional cut your door and replacing the safe, and your safe was heavy enough to make removing it from the premises impossible (IE bullion).

Realistically, though, I think that I'd not want to deal with the worry that I might crack the glass slamming the door or whatever, and just accept that if a dedicated professional wants in, I can't do anything to stop him short of being there with a gun.

Given that, I think we want the safe to be as resistant to smash and grab as we can make it without making it impossible to take it with me if I move, we want it to protect its contents in the case of fire, we want it to be mounted such that it is as close to impossible to remove without opening it as possible (I like the idea of putting it on a joisted floor, and securing it to steel beams held to the bottom of the floor above the ceiling below, and having the steel beams be 8 foot or so long, so if someone decides to try and pry it off the floor, they have to tear up the bit of floor they're standing on, making that a bit tricky).

I don't think we need to worry about opening it in a hurry, because we are probably going to have at least one loaded firearm accessible to us when we are at home. Or at least I do.

[FJ540]

I'm actually thinking of anchoring it to the concrete floor and foundation wall in our basement. Due to the layout down there, it'll take a while for anyone to find it to begin with, then it'll be in cramped quarters where you won't be able to get a johnny bar in, let alone tip it.

I just can't bring myself to spend $400+ on the tin boxes they sell as gun safes. I could practically make one out of 1/4" plate for that.

[EJSG19]

I'm actually thinking of anchoring it to the concrete floor and foundation wall in our basement. Due to the layout down there, it'll take a while for anyone to find it to begin with, then it'll be in cramped quarters where you won't be able to get a johnny bar in, let alone tip it.

I just can't bring myself to spend $400+ on the tin boxes they sell as gun safes. I could practically make one out of 1/4" plate for that.

Add a zero for any "serious" commercially sold gun safe. The thin metal lockers hopefully aren't claiming to be real gun safes. Could probably defeat those with nothing but feet and hands in 20 minutes.

[mitchx3]

I worked at a bank for a few years, a few years ago, I'll describe the safe system we used. Safety Deposit: A concrete room with a door that was 8'x4'x1'. Instead of locking bolts it had a single locking ridge on the hinge and non-hinge sides. A keyed secured the combination dial that opened it. For cash we had 2 separate safes in a kinda secure room. Each safe was probably 3 feet wide , 7 tall. They were made of 3/4" steel, four 1" lugs on the sides, three on the top/bottom. All the edges where the doors met the walls were set in 1/2" and met at 45*. They were bolted down (to concrete) with four 3/4" bolts. Access was via key locked combination dial. Banks have insurance, so this system was deemed ok
by someone with a monetary interest.

At that level I would guess brute force entry would be stupid, defeating the lock would be easier. I'm willing to bet that you'd need a *good* locksmith to defeat the locking system.

A temp or vibration sensor in your safe, tied to an alarm could do a lot.

Tangentially I wonder if a chemical cooling setup could increase the fire resistance. Something like those automatic beverage coolers only bigger and with a temp sensitive trigger. Air hits 200*, cooling goes, gives you another 20min or something.


But then these exist

[V Man]

A friend of my bought one of these this year for twice the money they are asking for at Lowe's. This safe is made by Liberty Safe Co and is a great starter safe.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=292952-10283-CE12-BK&lpage=none

[ComradeBurg]

The ones with the wheel and several bars seem to suffer from being "one lock to crack" IMO, so wouldn't it make more sense to have multiple locks to engage various latches?

Multiple locks is great, until you need to get into the safe in a hurry.

Also most criminals aren't going to bother cracking the lock, that takes time. If they want what's in the safe they will either take the thing with them and work on it as they desire (difficult but most neighbors don't find a moving fan in the driveway odd) or cut the safe open. You could put fifty locks on a safe but if somebody wants in bad enough they're going to get in. Think of a safe as a deterrent against smash and grab thieves. Somebody who breaks in to steal jewelry probably isn't going to have the tools needed to move or open a safe and hence will bypass it for easier gains. These are the most common thieves and hence a safe will deter a majority of thieves.

[FJ540]

I keep my 1911 out with multiple full mags, so this is more for long term storage and keeping things out of kids reach per the law.

In the event of zombie invasion, I think I'd have time for opening an extra lock or 2.

The liberty safe might be an option. Like I said, the location will be difficult for most to find without knowing it's there. Our basement is a bit of a maze and it always surprises people how much is down here (where my desk is) as the floor plan and how you move through it disorients you to the upstairs.

[V Man]

I keep my 1911 out with multiple full mags, so this is more for long term storage and keeping things out of kids reach per the law.

In the event of zombie invasion, I think I'd have time for opening an extra lock or 2.

The liberty safe might be an option. Like I said, the location will be difficult for most to find without knowing it's there. Our basement is a bit of a maze and it always surprises people how much is down here (where my desk is) as the floor plan and how you move through it disorients you to the upstairs.

I helped my friend carry his safe up the stairs to his apartment so I know it can be moved fairly easy by a couple of guys. I am going to go pick one up tonight since I have been looking for a safe too and the price just cant be beat.

[onebohemian]

Whenever the topic of safes comes up on this board, I'm always reminded of the video of the two guys breaking into the safe in two minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M

[justaguy]

Whenever the topic of safes comes up on this board, I'm always reminded of this video (sorry if this may be a dup if it was posted in the coke-dispensing topic, but I'm not going to go back through all of that to check):

http://s665.photobucket.com/albums/vv17/sturdygunsafe/?action=view&current=7ffb73c1.pbr

This is why I have 5 safes one inside of the other, inside the other, inside one more.

[FJ540]

I'm going to head up there and have a look at them. My in-laws have a furniture dolly, so I'm not all that worried about getting it in.

We know about the two guys video. I'd bet I could find you and shoot you both before you located my safe.

Again, primary intent is to keep neighbor kiddo's out and prevent the need for a zillion intrusion resistant gun cases. If they want in, they could haul my O/A rig anywhere in the house with little difficulty. I may end up making a cage for that thing too and keeping the plasma cutter's torch in with it.

[V Man]

I just picked mine up and I have to say that it is very nice for the money. They are completely out of this safe at the Shakopee store so I had to go to the W. St Paul store to get mine. The safe weighs 265 lbs empty so if someone can carry this out of my house I am not sure that I want to mess with them anyway.

[1911fan]

I prefer to hide things rather than try to make them unstealable. I have written on here before about hiding in plain site. Stair treads that are held by magnets, backs of sofa's held in place with velcro, underbed boxes, coffee tables that are not just tables but chests as well, knee walls built hollow, false ends in closets. far easier, far safer, and a lot roomier.

[FJ540]

You haven't seen how many clothes and shoes the mrs has...

Making a closet any smaller would be a big NG.


I went and had a look at the safes at Lowes but they lost the combo for the little guy that's normally priced at $297 (the ad is just to push it - it's not on sale at all). They did get me into the big one that's $720 or so, and I'm not impressed. It's just like the one in the video. With some well placed cold rolled, you could make it a lot stronger with little difficulty, but out of the box it's not much protection. Bolting it down would actually serve to assist the thieves.