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Okay, I don't mean to sound paranoid, but isn't having to get NICS almost as bad as requiring registered firearms? Doesn't it put up some red flag "oh, Username000 (not my real name obviously) bought a gun, we'll keep that in our records for later."?

Username000 wrote:Okay, I don't mean to sound paranoid, but isn't having to get NICS almost as bad as requiring registered firearms? Doesn't it put up some red flag "oh, Username000 (not my real name obviously) bought a gun, we'll keep that in our records for later."

Yes, but it doesn't "register" the firearm... You can sell it without the government's involvement (for now anyway). This is the "backdoor" aspect of registration with universal background checks. Also, how would universal background checks be enforced without a "actual" registry?

BTW, you are already on the list

The list of things that get you on the list.

Username000 wrote:Okay, I don't mean to sound paranoid, but isn't having to get NICS almost as bad as requiring registered firearms? Doesn't it put up some red flag "oh, Username000 (not my real name obviously) bought a gun, we'll keep that in our records for later."?

NICS identifying data is destroyed after 18 months (or two years, or something). The FBI is statutorily prohibited from retaining it as any kind of de facto gun registration scheme.

If you want to be worried about registration, worry about the 4473 you fill out. Your FFL has to keep those around for 20 years, make them available for inspection by the ATF, and they can be subpoenaed.

Hmac wrote:

Username000 wrote:Okay, I don't mean to sound paranoid, but isn't having to get NICS almost as bad as requiring registered firearms? Doesn't it put up some red flag "oh, Username000 (not my real name obviously) bought a gun, we'll keep that in our records for later."?

NICS identifying data is destroyed after 18 months (or two years, or something). The FBI is statutorily prohibited from retaining it as any kind of de facto gun registration scheme.

If you want to be worried about registration, worry about the 4473 you fill out. Your FFL has to keep those around for 20 years, make them available for inspection by the ATF, and they can be subpoenaed.

I was worried about the 4473 as well, just forgot to mention it.

NMRMN wrote:Also, how would universal background checks be enforced without a "actual" registry?

Undercover stings come to mind, like with underage alcohol purchases.

Username000 wrote:I was worried about the 4473 as well, just forgot to mention it.

Sorry, I was speaking to BATF form 4473 as well...

texasprowler wrote:

NMRMN wrote:Also, how would universal background checks be enforced without a "actual" registry?

Undercover stings come to mind, like with underage alcohol purchases.

Good point.

NMRMN wrote:

Username000 wrote:I was worried about the 4473 as well, just forgot to mention it.

Sorry, I was speaking to BATF form 4473 as well...

Yeah, I was implying the 4473 + NICS when I made my original post, but I didn't mention it in that post.

Username000 wrote:I was worried about the 4473 as well, just forgot to mention it.

The point above is valid, however, in that private sales (in this state...so far) aren't tracked in any way. No 4473, no NICS check.

Hmac wrote:

Username000 wrote:I was worried about the 4473 as well, just forgot to mention it.

The point above is valid, however, in that private sales (in this state...so far) aren't tracked in any way. No 4473, no NICS check.

Yeah, but it's tough to get a brand new firearm in a private sale unless it's a straw purchase, but that's bad.

Username000 wrote:

Hmac wrote:

Username000 wrote:I was worried about the 4473 as well, just forgot to mention it.

The point above is valid, however, in that private sales (in this state...so far) aren't tracked in any way. No 4473, no NICS check.

Yeah, but it's tough to get a brand new firearm in a private sale unless it's a straw purchase, but that's bad.

Straw purchases are bad and furthermore, illegal. I see new firearms for sale all the time from private sellers: Most request ID and PTP, and even a bill of sale.

Seems to me they could just require a PTP or PTC for all transfers, universal background covered. But I think they are looking for something more intrusive.

texasprowler wrote:Seems to me they could just require a PTP or PTC for all transfers, universal background covered. But I think they are looking for something more intrusive.

Won't work for me, I don't have those.

Edit: Not yet anyway.

texasprowler wrote:Seems to me they could just require a PTP or PTC for all transfers, universal background covered. But I think they are looking for something more intrusive.

Exactly. Rove offered up an idea: background check at the door of gun shows. I'm not sure that I like it, but it would seem to accomplish what the grabbers "say" they want, and alleviate gun-owners concerns as well.

Hey Username000: I'm getting you're into the whole "incognito" thing. Still, here's a nice place to start