Concerns with firearm purchase

[Sigfan220]

I should say that I don't think this guy is running his business right, just saying that he does not have to hand them over. If he takes the gun you could probably take him to small claims court. I wouldn't wait any longer though, if it's been 2 weeks give him a call.

We are all a bit curious who this mystery FFL is...

[Squib Joe]

We are all a bit curious who this mystery FFL is...

Not too tough to find. Google: "ffl minnesota 30 days" and it will be in the top four results

[Ghost]

We are all a bit curious who this mystery FFL is...

Not too tough to find. Google: "ffl minnesota 30 days" and it will be in the top four results

EDIT: Nevermind, It was number 6 on my computer search. Wasn't on my iphone. Yep, I wouldn't agree to that.

[photogpat]

We are all a bit curious who this mystery FFL is...

Not too tough to find. Google: "ffl minnesota 30 days" and it will be in the top four results

Oh....THAT guy....

[fingers]

Wow I got a ton of responses. Sorry to keep you guys hanging. I will reply to all questions in this one post:

@gun_fan111v2 ok so that tells me that this is not an uncommon delay - that others have had to wait longer. That's good to know. One of the thoughts in my head was that the guy just forgot about me. I still think that anyone concerned about customer service would want to adhere to the 3-day rule. I suspect that is why the 3-day rule was included in the legislation, so people wouldn't be left hanging in the wind forever.

@Ghost: The specific wording on the website is: "Any firearm or lower receiver not picked up within 30 days after we receive it will be considered abandoned and disposed of by L.E. Gun Sales." So the literal meaning of the policy suggests he can keep them. However, that would be absolutely crazy if he refuses to release them to me after 3 days but then penalized me because I did not pick them up because he refused to release them and the NCIS took its sweet time processing my background.

@ Minnesotaafv, Erud: Calling the ATF sounds like a good idea. However, gunfan111v2 mentioned that a friend of his recently had to wait 1 month before completing a transfer. I am only coming up on 2 weeks. I try to not be the guy who goes complaining to the authorities as a first resort since it might result in an unfair hassle for the guy if the NCIS is backglogged to the tune of 1 month. I think I might email the guy and see if I get a good reply.

xd ed, Big Blue, Ron Burgundy, Squib Joe: The FFL I chose is called LE gun sales in Burnsville. A $10 per pistol fee is what attracted me to them. I understand the reason for their policy and respect it. If I was the FFL and am giving someone a $10 transfer fee I would not include much in the way of service with that. Getting a new firearm is exciting, I can vividly remember the day I bought my first one (Mark v) more than 15 years ago up to my most recent one, an AR15. I am sure there are lots of customers who are so excited an impatient that they are calling the FFL 2 or 3 times per day with the exact same question"Wheres my firearm, is it ready???". It would make sense to have that policy in force to curb endless phone calls from eager buyers and put some teeth into it by threatening a fee for disregarding it. However, I really want to call but can just imagine him saying "I got your number, I said I'd call you when its ready, I need to charge an additional $5 for my time you wasted". The first post implied it took one month for someone else's delay to get resolved. I am just coming up on 2 weeks, so its entirely possible that it hasn't been resolved yet.

@gun_fan111v2: My research shows that the FFL may release the firearm at his discretion 3 days after a "delay" without hearing anything more from the NCIS. I was a bit of a hell raiser as a teen (an adult teen: 18-19 unfortunately), so I know exactly why I am being delayed but I also know that nothing in my background disqualifies me from owning or possessing. Although I am small potatoes with respect to my collection, I have never had anyone make me wait more than 3 days in the small number of times I have purchased in the past. I'm surprised that it is common to make someone wait up to a month as you mentioned in the first post. It seems against my views of what a customer-service orientated business should be doing. I hope the FFL I chose and BPR are the exceptions and not the rules when I go looking for a more customer-friendly FFL in the future.

@yukonjasper: Exactly, hence, I am here crying on your shoulders.

@sigfan: I am hoping to not have to resolve this in court, but I guess I would if it came to it. Its premature to consider that, I am hopeful a quick email to the guy might get everything cleared up.

@photogpat: Why do you say "oh that guy", is this a common problem with "that guy"? How does it usually play out? Would be good to know before I make any calls/ emails.

[Sigfan220]

I don't know what all you are seeing. It appears several local shops have this or similar policy.

[Sigfan220]

The dealer does not have to release them to you. When I got my FFL they cautioned me on this. It is up to the dealer to decide. This goes for any firearm transfer or sale. If the dealer feels something is off they can decide not to transfer. If he has a policy against it then you may need to find a new dealer or take it up with the ATF.

So if a dealer chooses not to release, what, if anything is prescribed for the disposition of the firearm, in the case of a tabletop FFL, as this case appears to be.

According to one FFL I looked up it is up to you to pay return shipping to the original FFL. I guess it depends on each stores policy.

[Sigfan220]

I don't know what all you are seeing. It appears several local shops have this or similar policy.

I found the exact one now. His policy does seem a bit more harsh than the rest. His transfer rate is insane! Even $20 transfers are hardly worth the hassle. I don't know how dealers do it.

Try Arnzen Arms or Southwest Arms next time

[Ghost]

fingers, did you receive some sort of documentation showing they have your gun and that you are waiting on the delay?

My gut feeling is you are fine and just wait for him to call, it sucks but long term storage of your stuff would suck also. I assume there might be a bit of a back log prior to the election. If you have your documentation you shouldn't have any problem. I'd still call at some point, maybe at 3 or 4 weeks wait.

Next time use BPR (location) or one of the guys on here as you can stop in there and ask if needed and the volume they do is quite large.

[BigBlue]

xd ed, Big Blue, Ron Burgundy, Squib Joe: The FFL I chose is called LE gun sales in Burnsville. A $10 per pistol fee is what attracted me to them. I understand the reason for their policy and respect it. If I was the FFL and am giving someone a $10 transfer fee I would not include much in the way of service with that. Getting a new firearm is exciting, I can vividly remember the day I bought my first one (Mark v) more than 15 years ago up to my most recent one, an AR15. I am sure there are lots of customers who are so excited an impatient that they are calling the FFL 2 or 3 times per day with the exact same question"Wheres my firearm, is it ready???". It would make sense to have that policy in force to curb endless phone calls from eager buyers and put some teeth into it by threatening a fee for disregarding it. However, I really want to call but can just imagine him saying "I got your number, I said I'd call you when its ready, I need to charge an additional $5 for my time you wasted". The first post implied it took one month for someone else's delay to get resolved. I am just coming up on 2 weeks, so its entirely possible that it hasn't been resolved yet.

It's understandable to not want pesky contacts from overeager buyers. But you can't have a policy like that if you (as the FFL) don't follow through with stellar customer service in all other aspects of things, which would include following up in a reasonable amount of time after an exception like this NICS delay. If you have a policy saying you don't want to be bugged by pesky buyers but you are going to provide crappy comm when needed then something is not compatible. You're just as much of a bad apple as the customer that calls 4 times a day.

If you're an FFL and have THAT much problem with buyers that you have to create a policy like that then perhaps it isn't the job for you. I'd envision a quality FFL would not have a specific policy (to avoid this exact type of customer stress) but would treat individual pesky customers as needed. If they call several times just tell them on the 2nd (3rd, whatever) call that they need to back off an wait for your call. There CAN'T be that many people who would continue to bother you after that.

But that's just my 2 cents worth, which are actually only worth about 1.1 cents due to inflation these days. I don't have enough respect for people like that to not think harshly of them. Sorry. Disregard and move along...

BB

[BigDog58]

I don't know what all you are seeing. It appears several local shops have this or similar policy.

I found the exact one now. His policy does seem a bit more harsh than the rest. His transfer rate is insane! Even $20 transfers are hardly worth the hassle. I don't know how dealers do it.

Try Arnzen Arms or Southwest Arms next time

I agree with Sigfan220. I've used Arnzen Arms several times and their customer service is Excellent.

[gun_fan111v2]

Fingers, Tim is a nice guy and I am pretty sure you will get your new purchase. Statements on his website are a bit harsh but my dealings with him have always been positive.

If he tells you, I would definitely be curious why he elects to wait 30 days

[fingers]

sigfan: Thanks for the tip, I will make note of your recommendations. I agree, $10 transfers are hardly worth it, letting strangers into your home, having to deal with angry customers who don't pass the background check, etc. It might be worth it if lots of firearms are left abandoned.

ghost: No, unfortunately, I did not think to do that. I do have an email from the FFL from a couple of weeks ago asking me to come in and pick the firearms up. I have an online receipt from the seller, Sportsmans Outdoors Superstores. My prior purchases were with B&M gun shops, so maybe the fact that they had some skin in the game was an incentive for them to make things go smoother with more communication.

Bigblue: I agree. Also, if you are going to lay out all your policies in detail like that, at least let me know in advance that if I get a "delay" that the FFL has no intention of transferring me the firearm after 3 days as the law allows. I first learned about this while he was walking me out the door. If I had known that things would take 2 or more weeks, I never would have shipped the firearms to him and would have done more research. Its kind of too late for me to say "I don't agree to your terms, I don't want to do business with you" after the firearms are in his possession. That should have been disclosed on his website along with everything else and I could have had the chance to find someone who would transfer within 3 days. It just seem so anti-customer to refuse to transfer the firearm to a customer the second the law allows you to.

Bigdog: I will check them out and probably use them next time.

gunfan: I hope nothing I've said gave the impression that I didn't find him to be a nice guy. He did seem like a nice guy and funny too while he was complaining about his constantly-barking dogs. I just have little experience with FFLs and needed to know if I am being impatient or if these ncis checks always take this long, if FFLs typically transfer after 3 days or if making someone wait a long time is typical, if I chose to go with a different FFL if I can expect Tim to transfer the firearm to a different FFL who will serve me faster, if I should contact him despite his no-call policy, and what I should do if things go south. I just have lots of questions and before contacting him wanted to know where I stand and how things are supposed to work.

[george]

You should make some kind of contact, I've had delays where NICS never did call back. I transfer when I can legally do so, I've also asked NICS as I did other transfers and they had them marked as proceed but never called.

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[sprigfan]

I agree you should call him. This is a different scenario than just some guy itching to get his new gun a few minutes or hours after it was delivered.

I've used LE Gun Sales 3 or 4 times for transfers, and Tim has always been pleasant to deal with. I think he'll understand. His dogs on the other hand, aren't quite so friendly...