Offering permit if pulled over

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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby fingers on Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:00 am

Slavep wrote:I'm not sure if I heard about that one. Where did it take place?


MJY65 is correct about the case I am talking about. I do recognize there are probably 100's of cases where the driver disclosed the situation and everything went smoothly. My thinking is just that it would be quicker and easier to deal with the business at hand, be it your speeding or registration or whatever and be on your way as quickly as possible without complicating things.
One other thing, if the reason you are pulled over might have something to do with alcohol or drugs, it would be in your best interest to not mention it since you can be arrested and your permit revoked. For more information, read up on Minn Statute 624.7142. It appears that statute applies to being in public in any way, not just driving a car. I'm not advocating irresponsible behavior, just mentioning what is in your best interest if you made a bad choice.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby LarryP on Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:00 am

I disagree, If you're pulled over for alcohol or drugs, Mention you have a permit. Then it will be revoked. That's ok because you shouldn't be allowed to have one!


fingers wrote:
Slavep wrote:I'm not sure if I heard about that one. Where did it take place?


MJY65 is correct about the case I am talking about. I do recognize there are probably 100's of cases where the driver disclosed the situation and everything went smoothly. My thinking is just that it would be quicker and easier to deal with the business at hand, be it your speeding or registration or whatever and be on your way as quickly as possible without complicating things.
One other thing, if the reason you are pulled over might have something to do with alcohol or drugs, it would be in your best interest to not mention it since you can be arrested and your permit revoked. For more information, read up on Minn Statute 624.7142. It appears that statute applies to being in public in any way, not just driving a car. I'm not advocating irresponsible behavior, just mentioning what is in your best interest if you made a bad choice.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby tenmilmag on Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:36 am

Offering permit if pulled over ...

Never have, never will.

How I was taught.

Have no problem presenting if asked.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby Slavep on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:58 am

When I have had to take out my ID or credit card the gun has never been exposed. It is quite easy for me especially since I generally wear larger shirts.
I have also never been pulled over in my 30 years of driving, but anything can happen.
I don't have an issue letting an officer know that I am carrying. I say defuse any situations ahead of time. I have found that the area I live in has a lot of people carrying. I'm happy not to be in the cities anymore. Thank you for the video as well. Very informative.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby jshuberg on Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:27 am

I've been pulled over, and notified the cop that I was carrying. I'm an older white guy though, if I was a minority I think about it differently.

The reason in general I think it's a good idea is that if you present your permit to a cop, is it's evidence that you a probably a good guy as you've been through a background check. Also, the majority of cops lean pro 2A, and see permit holders as contributing to the public good. There's always a chance you'll meet the cop that thinks otherwise, or be prejudiced against you if you're a minority, but in general if you notify them they will perceive it as a good thing. If you *don't* notify, and the cop becomes aware you're carrying, expect it to go badly and be held at gunpoint until the facts all come out. Personally I'm not a fan of a scared cop pointing a gun at me with an unknown level of training and trigger discipline, so I choose to deescalate the situation before it has the chance to escalate.

More important than *if* you should notify the cop you're carrying is *how* you notify them. When he comes to your door have the engine stopped, window open, interior lights on, and hands at the 11:00 and 1:00 positions on the steering wheel. Passengers should have their hands on the dashboard, palms down. No one should move their hands unless asked/ordered to do so by the cop, and you should repeat his instruction as you move. If the cop tells you to unbuckle the seatbelt, repeat to him "I'm unbuckling my seatbelt" while moving your hands slowly to the seatbelt. This might seem a bit overly cautious, but you're in a situation where the cop is prepared to shoot you should he feel his life is in danger, and you're wearing a gun. Anything that you and your passengers can do to keep the encounter from escalating is a good thing.

The best time to tell the cop you're carrying (if you decide to) is in response to his very first question. If he asks "do you know why I pulled you over", you should reply "I'm not exactly sure, but before we go any further, I want you to know that I have a permit to carry card in my wallet, and I'm carrying. How would you like to proceed". Under no circumstance say the word GUN, first you tell him you have a *permit*, and then tell him that your *carrying*. If you say gun or firearm or pistol, that will be the only thing he hears and the likelihood of it going bad goes up significantly.

He'll ask you where the gun is. Tell him, don't move your hands to it or point at it. If he asks you to get your wallet, or undo your seatbelt, or anything that would require you to move your hands closer to your gun - tell him "I am carrying down there, but I'm not going to touch it, I'm going to get my wallet for you as you've asked." Again, never say gun, never say pistol. Move slowly, and get your ID and permit when asked.

It may be a minor traffic violation, but you are in an armed encounter with law enforcement, and they have no idea who you are or whether you will pose a threat. You should treat it as a potentially life threatening situation, because it could become that for something as simple as a miscommunication, as it did with Castile. This isn't the time for the rights and wrongs of how an encounter with police should go down. This is the time when you are polite, compliant, echo back to him any commands to move you are given to prevent any miscommunication from happening.

On the occasion when I was pulled over, I was doing about 15MPH over the limit. I have the encounter recorded. When he asked if I knew why he pulled me over, I told him I was driving too fast, and that I had a permit and was carrying. He had me get my wallet, I showed him my ID and permit, told me to slow down, gave me my stuff back, and to go ahead and drive on. The whole thing took around 40 seconds. Notifying a cop your carrying isn't necessarily going to get you out of a ticket, but it can prevent things from escalating out of control and winding up shot.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby Bearcatrp on Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:00 am

Any of you LLEA folks know if when a cop runs your DL that it will show your a permit to carry? I wouldn't say anything until asked.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby yukonjasper on Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:52 pm

Bearcatrp wrote:Any of you LLEA folks know if when a cop runs your DL that it will show your a permit to carry? I wouldn't say anything until asked.

That information is not supposed to be available on a normal ID run. It can be accessed at dispatch with a "second level" information request. I am not Law Enforcement, but the topic has been raised here many times.

I, myself, don't believe in putting any more variables in play than are absolutely necessary for me to interact with LE. As others have said, don't break the law in the first place and unless its inevitable that the officer is going to find out you are carrying, I, personally would not offer up the information. I'm not as optimistic as some who think that having a Permit proves I'm a kindred spirit and the Officer will automatically trust me - I would suspect the opposite is true and would elevate the anxiety level as we saw with the Falcon Heights case.

Limit the number and frequency of LE contact and limit the time you have to interact. Sorry I was speeding officer, I screwed up. Thank you for the ticket, have a nice day. Away you go with all of the pints of blood you woke up, still in you..........................mission accomplished.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby ttousi on Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:03 pm

That information is not supposed to be available on a normal ID run. It can be accessed at dispatch with a "second level" information request. I am not Law Enforcement, but the topic has been raised here many times


Correct...........I have watched officers run my DL and Lic plate from a squad computer and it is not available unless requested. Haven't done it lately but will test it again this weekend.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby wasfuzz on Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:16 pm

Bearcatrp wrote:Any of you LLEA folks know if when a cop runs your DL that it will show your a permit to carry? I wouldn't say anything until asked.

No it does not show up on your DL - BUUUT a county in this area will run you through the in house data base if you are a resident of that county and it will show that you have a permit. When you come in to apply for the permit or a permit to purchase or a controlled burn permit or ever called to report a crime that is entered into the in house data base.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby yukonjasper on Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 pm

wasfuzz wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Any of you LLEA folks know if when a cop runs your DL that it will show your a permit to carry? I wouldn't say anything until asked.

No it does not show up on your DL - BUUUT a county in this area will run you through the in house data base if you are a resident of that county and it will show that you have a permit. When you come in to apply for the permit or a permit to purchase or a controlled burn permit or ever called to report a crime that is entered into the in house data base.


is that legal? Seems to run contrary to the spirit of the law.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby grimbeaver on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:25 am

I'm surprised how many people say they pull out their DL before the officer approaches them. I was told once by an officer that you digging around only makes them more uneasy because they do not know what you are digging for and can not see what you are doing from where they are at. I have not been pulled over in 15+ years but should it happen I would turn on the dome light if it is dark, roll down the window and just keep my hands on the wheel where they are visible.

I'm with jshuberg in that in most cases I think it's better to be up front than to risk catching them off guard later. The last thing you want is an officer who is now wondering what else you are hiding from them. But I have to agree if I was not a white male I might think differently.
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Re: Offering permit if pulled over

Postby OldmanFCSA on Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:26 am

After being caught in a speed trap in Iowa, the first thing the officer said while standing back behind my drivers window was: "Do you have a gun with you?" When I said yes, he asked "Where is it?" Since I cannot wear it while driving, I told him it was under back seat (well within my arm reach). Only then did he ask for my drivers license and give me a ticket for over speed limit. When I asked where the speed limit changed, he stated " Right in front of that truck parked on side of road." not visible to drivers at normal posted speed driving past box truck parked just before the reduced speed limit sign. When I went back to take pictures of truck and position of sign, I was told to "Move on or be arrested" - wish I had done a movie instead of taking pictures.
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