Something to think about

[sgruenhagen44]

If you go on the MNHONDAS forum and start talking about how cool GMs are, you will probably get some pretty colorful responses. Get it?

[meddin]

A lot of people my age get their "news" and political info from Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. I will continue to call those people libtards. Especially the ones that like to bash FOX news.

Bummer. I must be a 'libtard' (and I hate that term). And I'm no young pup. I don't 'get' my news form those shows, but watch them frequently. First of all, its on Comedy Central for crying out loud, and not meant to be taken entirely seriously (although they offer some interesting insight on a lot of issues which if tough to ignore if you actually watch the shows).

I also Fox News and CNN (no MSNBC for me). I also read plenty of news online (CNN, Fox, Strib, NY Times, Washington Times, Washington Post, ect). And also listen to the radio (from Rush to NPR - although way more NPR than Rush admitetdly). Plenty of bias all around. Use your grey cells and find the 'truth' in theere somewhere.

I would consider my self one of the more liberal people on this forum (based on what I glean from posts), but am a fervent defender of the 2nd Amendment, When see terms like 'libtard' thrown about, or calling people like Obama 'Obammy', it's a turn off. It certainly does not help get the 2A supporter's message across. Be respectful. I know those opposed to guns may not always behave, but that really does not matter. Respect, education, and listening to the other side as they speak to us go a long, long way.

[Sarge_44]

A lot of people my age get their "news" and political info from Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. I will continue to call those people libtards. Especially the ones that like to bash FOX news.

Bummer. I must be a 'libtard' (and I hate that term). And I'm no young pup. I don't 'get' my news form those shows, but watch them frequently. First of all, its on Comedy Central for crying out loud, and not meant to be taken entirely seriously (although they offer some interesting insight on a lot of issues which if tough to ignore if you actually watch the shows).

I also Fox News and CNN (no MSNBC for me). I also read plenty of news online (CNN, Fox, Strib, NY Times, Washington Times, Washington Post, ect). And also listen to the radio (from Rush to NPR - although way more NPR than Rush admitetdly). Plenty of bias all around. Use your grey cells and find the 'truth' in theere somewhere.

I would consider my self one of the more liberal people on this forum (based on what I glean from posts), but am a fervent defender of the 2nd Amendment, When see terms like 'libtard' thrown about, or calling people like Obama 'Obammy', it's a turn off. It certainly does not help get the 2A supporter's message across. Be respectful. I know those opposed to guns may not always behave, but that really does not matter. Respect, education, and listening to the other side as they speak to us go a long, long way.

+1. Well said


*RELAX*

[sgruenhagen44]

A lot of people my age get their "news" and political info from Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. I will continue to call those people libtards. Especially the ones that like to bash FOX news.

Bummer. I must be a 'libtard' (and I hate that term). And I'm no young pup. I don't 'get' my news form those shows, but watch them frequently. First of all, its on Comedy Central for crying out loud, and not meant to be taken entirely seriously (although they offer some interesting insight on a lot of issues which if tough to ignore if you actually watch the shows).

I also Fox News and CNN (no MSNBC for me). I also read plenty of news online (CNN, Fox, Strib, NY Times, Washington Times, Washington Post, ect). And also listen to the radio (from Rush to NPR - although way more NPR than Rush admitetdly). Plenty of bias all around. Use your grey cells and find the 'truth' in theere somewhere.

I would consider my self one of the more liberal people on this forum (based on what I glean from posts), but am a fervent defender of the 2nd Amendment, When see terms like 'libtard' thrown about, or calling people like Obama 'Obammy', it's a turn off. It certainly does not help get the 2A supporter's message across. Be respectful. I know those opposed to guns may not always behave, but that really does not matter. Respect, education, and listening to the other side as they speak to us go a long, long way.

I watch them too and find them hilarious!!! But some people take that stuff seriously... thats the problem. For the record NPR is about all I listen to. I would also consider myself one of the more liberal minded people on here. My point was that a lot of people are misinformed. I know I have posted this before but I had multiple women tell me they would not vote for Romney cuz he wanted to make birth control illegal. Not saying that the info came from Comedy central or anything. Just showing that some people are grossly misinformed!!!! And yes bias is everywhere, but at least fox has contributors such as Allan Combs, Juan Williams, Dick Morris (top adviser for clinton). These are people they have on everyday!! You don't see regular right wing news contributors on MSNBC.

IMPORTANT PART HERE!!! I don't start yelling insults at people that disagree with me. I just posted how I typically keep my mouth shut. I hate talking politics with people. That's why I am on this forum right now.

YUP I GET IT. THROWIN OUT INSULTS DOES NOT GET YOUR POINT ACROSS. I never said it did. But the reality is that some people are libtards, some people are bible thumpin republicans, some people are raging racists. I hate all three equally across the board.

[meddin]

A lot of people my age get their "news" and political info from Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. I will continue to call those people libtards. Especially the ones that like to bash FOX news.

Bummer. I must be a 'libtard' (and I hate that term). And I'm no young pup. I don't 'get' my news form those shows, but watch them frequently. First of all, its on Comedy Central for crying out loud, and not meant to be taken entirely seriously (although they offer some interesting insight on a lot of issues which if tough to ignore if you actually watch the shows).

I also Fox News and CNN (no MSNBC for me). I also read plenty of news online (CNN, Fox, Strib, NY Times, Washington Times, Washington Post, ect). And also listen to the radio (from Rush to NPR - although way more NPR than Rush admitetdly). Plenty of bias all around. Use your grey cells and find the 'truth' in theere somewhere.

I would consider my self one of the more liberal people on this forum (based on what I glean from posts), but am a fervent defender of the 2nd Amendment, When see terms like 'libtard' thrown about, or calling people like Obama 'Obammy', it's a turn off. It certainly does not help get the 2A supporter's message across. Be respectful. I know those opposed to guns may not always behave, but that really does not matter. Respect, education, and listening to the other side as they speak to us go a long, long way.

I watch them too and find them hilarious!!! But some people take that stuff seriously... thats the problem. For the record NPR is about all I listen to. I would also consider myself one of the more liberal minded people on here. My point was that a lot of people are misinformed. I know I have posted this before but I had multiple women tell me they would not vote for Romney cuz he wanted to make birth control illegal. Not saying that the info came from Comedy central or anything. Just showing that some people are grossly misinformed!!!! And yes bias is everywhere, but at least fox has contributors such as Allan Combs, Juan Williams, Dick Morris (top adviser for clinton). These are people they have on everyday!! You don't see regular right wing news contributors on MSNBC.

IMPORTANT PART HERE!!! I don't start yelling insults at people that disagree with me. I just posted how I typically keep my mouth shut. I hate talking politics with people. That's why I am on this forum right now.

YUP I GET IT. THROWIN OUT INSULTS DOES NOT GET YOUR POINT ACROSS. I never said it did. But the reality is that some people are libtards, some people are bible thumpin republicans, some people are raging racists. I hate all three equally across the board.

Fair enough. At least we can all get long

[xd ED]

I could care less what people say on here about me. I don't base my life on what others think. I was just pointing out what might help as someone who is, for the most part, on the other side of issues.


*RELAX*

I'm not sure that I understand your point here.
If it is that with enough exposure to reason, and logical discussion, one might modify their position, I'll suggest that rarely happens when one has made an emotionally based decision.
Given the debate at hand is essentially: 'I have a right to firearms' vs 'guns are scary', there isn't much likelihood of any such epiphany taking place:

Gun-control support Winsor said she sat through seven hours of testimony over the span of two days to gain more understanding from the other side and make sure her opinions were well-informed.
And she found the experience sobering.
"My viewpoints haven't changed at all. In fact, they're stronger than ever," Winsor said. "The fear and paranoia, it's a different world than what I live in. And it makes me sad."

Minnesota gun hearings: Emotional debate over House bills

[bpacman]

I know I am going to get a lot of backlash for this, but I thought I would say something anyways.

Do many of you think how the message is coming off as far as your rants about being pro 2A. Your view points are perfectly valid, but did you ever think for a second that the other side is aloud to have their opinions as well. You want them to understand what you are saying, but how many people try to understand what they are saying? Any good debater looks at both sides of the argument first. I see a lot of name calling on here and how stupid the other side is. Is that very productive?

Hi Sarge, I understand where you are coming from and I don't fault you for your level of understanding. We have spent over 236 years developing this country into a place where we all feel relatively safe from oppression, tyranny, mob rule and invasion. It is not our right to free speech or our right to a free press that provides this safety, nor is it our right to equal protection under the law. It is our right to keep and bare arms that makes this safety a reality.

So when you ask us if we consider the other sides point of view, I would say that I would need to see some evidence that the other side has a grasp on reality. Unfortunately this safety has bred a serious case of complacency in our culture where taking responsibility for your own actions and your own safety is a unpopular look on life and our culture. Gun ownership is a RIGHT and a RESPONSIBILITY. You cannot have one without the other and this country will not survive a continued deterioration of our inalienable rights under our constitution. You ask us to consider the other side's point of view, but the other side does not recognize our rights nor will they allow us to take responsibility for our own safety as we see fit.

We understand that they are angry, scarred and upset that their safety is being threatened by people who appear normal but possess evil intent. They feel powerless to do anything about it and it makes them want to remove the things that give evil power over them. They are unable to point out those individuals with evil intent but they can readily identify the weapons that they fear.

An Armed Citizen understands that you cannot identify people with evil intent until they make their intent clear. Their logical choice is to prepare for this and feel safer knowing they are prepared. The illogical choice is to "ask" or "order" everyone to disarm in the hope they will make the people with evil intent give up the weapons that their victims fear. Where I come from, our Mamas never raised such a foolish child.

So until the other side admits that they don't know what the answer is and acknowledge that they are incapable of protecting themselves from people with evil intent, we cannot help them or argue with them about the only solution that will work. We are not fear mongering here. We are acknowledging reality and preparing for the ugly truth of the matter which is people are still capable of unthinkable evil and the only thing that will stop them is a person willing to take life in the protection of themselves and others.

Please consider that the root of our argument and our belief is an understanding of reality and not an desire for a false sense of security.

Bp

[Snowgun]

Great post bp

[ktech]

I really like the points XDM45 made - this is fundamentally a human issue.
Similar, also, to what bpacman and xd ED said, folks who are anti-gun tend to use emotions as their basis for their opinions.

I personally consider this a poor method of decision making, but that is the reality.
In order to reach people who are thinking emotionally, one must either:
A) Appeal to emotion in another direction (that's scary, but look at this other EVEN SCARIER thing over here!)
B) Help gently guide the person to a state in which they become aware of the fact that they are thinking emotionally, and guide them towards logical reasoning instead

Insults, hard data and yelling do not do anything.

Someone who is thinking emotionally (for example: "Those kids at Sandy Hook were killed by a madman with a scary black rifle - we should ban scary black rifles so that doesn't happen to my kids!") needs to have their emotion validated and then be gently shown a method to address their concern (example continued: "I understand why black rifles scare you - I would be scared too in your position. Instead of banning the rifles however, why don't we approach this issue by looking at methods proven to stop active shooters; for example, police have changed their response methods to minimize the time it takes them to get good guys with guns in the building to stop the bad guy. Let's look at other ways we could help put good guys with guns in the building to stop this sort of thing from happening").

I hope this helps.

[MNHandK]

I know I am going to get a lot of backlash for this, but I thought I would say something anyways.

Do many of you think how the message is coming off as far as your rants about being pro 2A. Your view points are perfectly valid, but did you ever think for a second that the other side is aloud to have their opinions as well. You want them to understand what you are saying, but how many people try to understand what they are saying? Any good debater looks at both sides of the argument first. I see a lot of name calling on .....blah blah blah.... most of what they will see is people arguing with each other. Is that the message you want to send? Not very inviting if you ask me.

Sarge, I think you're onto something. Understand the other side.. step back and avoid the name calling and try to understand the Liberal view on the topic.. and maybe we will agree with them and our down our weapons. I can do that. IF.. We can extend the same courtesy to other topics.

Taxes.. Whoops, too late. Right side hates poor people and are greedy.
Entitlements.. Too late there too. Right side hates poor people, wants old people and children to starve/die.
Healthcare.. There again. Right side doesn't care, would rather people go poor typing to afford substandard health care. Die in the waiting room.
Abortion.. Yeah, Right side doesn't care about women. Would rather punish someone with a baby.
Regulations.. Nope, Right side wants dirty air and water, melted ice caps, and homeless polar bears.

So.. Guns? Shoot. All the Right side wants is crazy people running around with assault rifles and high capacity magazines like the Wild West.

In each instance, conservatives have attempted an educated debate based on facts, figures, and tangibles. The liberals have along every step of the way demonized and vilified them. I had a lib.. Who was a friend.. Tell me that I have "the blood of dead children on my hands" because I do not support an all out gun ban.

The lack of understanding and intelligence on the matter isn't coming from the Right. It's the liberals. As if banning guns or limiting the style or capacity is going to change things. Criminals are resourceful SOB's. if they want a gun, they'll get one. They'll march right into a gun free zone and shoot as many people as they can. They'll buy a gun out of a trunk from some low life and rob a liquor store. Just like they do in Chicago, DC..

So.. Do you think it's the right kind of message to send that rather than argue a topic on facts, and figures.. You turn to emotion, name calling, and demonizing? Acusing people of having the blood of dead children on their hands? Acusing a man who buys am AR15 for sporting that he really just wants to be able to kill as many people as he can and quickly as possible itch out having to deal with something as trivial as a magazine change?

[RobW]

To Sarge_44, you do know every time you say *Relax* you are just stirring the pot. There is a difference between diffusing a difficult conversation and being an *******...

[Sarge_44]

To Sarge_44, you do know every time you say *Relax* you are just stirring the pot. There is a difference between diffusing a difficult conversation and being an *******...

It's my signature for posts. It's a simple word I live by. So I'm not sure what you mean by ********.

[Snowgun]

To Sarge_44, you do know every time you say *Relax* you are just stirring the pot. There is a difference between diffusing a difficult conversation and being an *******...

It's my signature for posts. It's a simple word I live by. So I'm not sure what you mean by ********.

Then learn how to stick it in your sig line like everyone else. Otherwise it shows up in the body of all of your posts and makes you a troll who is spamming.

Actually i think i will just start flagging all your posts with it from now on. Everyone else who agrees with how annoying and disruptive it is to conversation feel free to join me.

[Sarge_44]

Cry about it. Plus it is in my signature for the Tapatalk app.

[Snowgun]

Cry about it. Plus it is in my signature for the Tapatalk app.

Nice to see your growing up and complying with this forum's community guidelines. Its not in your sig. If you need help i can show you how.